[HELP]Viaduct Showbar which used to be a football pub

[Mayuko]

liits wrote: Thanks simong. A quick look back at the British Newspaper Archive reveals how wrong I was, and how little trust I should be put in the BNA search facility, provided by BrightSolid Media [S***eSoiled Media, the people who damaged Friends Reunited].The Viaduct beer house referred to in the article of 21/12/1850 is located in Well Street, [between Wellington Lane and Castle Street – again, odd, because there’s no viaduct!] and actually referred to a burglary of the premises, not a fight between the Irish and the Police – that was the article above.So, to revisit my original post, above....The premises were definitely an un-named Public House which appears in the 1857 Licensing Register.It is certainly the correct premises, as the trail of licensees from Halliwell [at the start of the 1857 - 1872 Licensing Register, through to the subsequent 1872 - 1914 Licensing Register and naming of the premises in 1896] is continuous. Thank you for the responses!!! Loads of usefull information, I had to make lots of note!! Just purely out of interest, are you a history student, or a historian?

[Mayuko]

Phill_dvsn wrote: I sometimes went in there in the 80's, and in those days it wasn't really a gay bar like it's known now. It was just one of the down to earth pubs (and a bit rough) like the Duncan and White Swan. It wasn't a Leeds United fan pub in those days either, you'd more likely find it full of old Irishmen off the building sites. It was always frequented by a group of butch lesbians, it was the same ones. You'd see about 10 of them, but that's as far as the gay thing went. They're wasn't any gay blokes, it always seemed to be the New Penny for them. Now most of that bottom part area of Leeds seems to be the gay area. It was a bit different in the 80's to how it is now, you still had a degree of puff bashing and homophobia going on, so they kept to their own places and stayed out of the rough pubs. In those days straight blokes wouldn't even go in a bar with any reputation of it being gay, it wasn't a place to say you'd been either. Gays and straights just didn't mix. Today it seems very different indeed. The area around the Viaduct pub in the 80's is mentioned here on Secret Leedshttp://www.secretleeds.co.uk/forum/Messages.as ... dID=4152As far as I know it was always called the Viaduct pub.             Thank you for the response and the lovely photo!! Viaduct looks different in this.. Has the building next door got knocked down? and I read your thread as well, was very interesting!! It must have been really different back in 80s to how the area is now, it seems now that going night out in the 'gay area' has become somewhat fashionable, and 'straight people' and 'gay people' are all mixed up, which doesn't approve those gay people purely going there for thei community.. The more I look into the area and get more information, the more that make me realise it could be difficult topic I'm tackling on..

[simong]

liits wrote: Thanks simong. A quick look back at the British Newspaper Archive reveals how wrong I was, and how little trust I should be put in the BNA search facility, provided by BrightSolid Media [S***eSoiled Media, the people who damaged Friends Reunited].The Viaduct beer house referred to in the article of 21/12/1850 is located in Well Street, [between Wellington Lane and Castle Street – again, odd, because there’s no viaduct!] and actually referred to a burglary of the premises, not a fight between the Irish and the Police – that was the article above.So, to revisit my original post, above....The premises were definitely an un-named Public House which appears in the 1857 Licensing Register.It is certainly the correct premises, as the trail of licensees from Halliwell [at the start of the 1857 - 1872 Licensing Register, through to the subsequent 1872 - 1914 Licensing Register and naming of the premises in 1896] is continuous. Without looking too deeply, I would imagine that that Well Street was somewhere underneath the A58 flyover and in 1850 would have certainly had a view of the Aire viaduct that would have just been completed about half a mile north, and must have been a spectacular sight from the edge of the city.

[simong]

Hi Mayuko, a factor in patterns of use of pubs often has its roots in the stewardship of the pub or the ownership, and the trends around it. The Calls and the area around the Corn Exchange was set up as a controllable drinking area in the late 90s as was the trend in most big cities at the time, with the theory being that the police could keep control of the entrances and contain any violence that might occur. This has happened successfully in places like the Bigg Market in Newcastle and even around Cambridge Circus in London's West End. The Viaduct was a bit of an anomaly in this respect as it remained as an old fashioned Tetleys pub in the midst of the shiny new bars and clubs around it. The shift towards a gay clientèle in the area has only been apparent in the last few years to my knowledge and I suspect that the change will have been instigated by the start of a gay night or a cabaret or the opening of a club in the area which will have caused an influx of people looking for places to drink before going elsewhere, so it could be a chicken and egg situation, either that the Viaduct changed hands and became a gay pub or that it changed as a response the changing clientèle in the other bars in the area.

[liits]

Mayuko wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: ......In those days straight blokes wouldn't even go in a bar with any reputation of it being gay, it wasn't a place to say you'd been either. Gays and straights just didn't mix. Today it seems very different indeed. [ it seems now that going night out in the 'gay area' has become somewhat fashionable, and 'straight people' and 'gay people' are all mixed up, which doesn't approve those gay people purely going there for thei community.. I’m not so sure that it’s become somewhat fashionable. It’s become somewhat of a damn nuisance! Gay venues filled with breeders is not a new phenomenon, far from it! In some cases, it’s why gay venues are dying on their [edited for content] [not a pun]. While I would never describe myself as a militant, banner waving queer, many, like me, object VERY STRONGLY to having their preferred boozer being invaded by straights, either male or female.A sure-fire way of spotting impending doom is the first sight of the Hen Party with their tat veils and L plates. It’s all downhill from there.I suppose this is what comes of social acceptance, diversity and inclusivity, whatever that is.

[Leodian]

Phill_dvsn wrote: liits wrote: I wonder why it was known as the Viaduct in 1850, 16 years before a viaduct was built? Mystery isn't it? As far as I know the station and viaducts stopped well short of the viaduct pub, if you look at the 1850 map there is no viaduct, and it's not even clear if they are the same buildings that stand there today. Regarding the Leeds-Selby railway line I thought this may be of interest, though it is not to do with the Viaduct pub.In the 1830 section of John Mayhall's 'Annals of Yorkshire' vol 1 it states "An act of Parliament was obtained on the 1st June, this year, for making the Leeds and Selby Railway...The work was commenced at the beginning of 1831, and the road was opened for passengers on September 22nd, 1834, and for the transit of merchandise on the 15th of December following. The station is in Marsh-lane. This was the first line that was opened in connexion with Leeds".The line was subsequently extended (along with the building of the superb viaduct that includes the Dark Arches) into the centre of Leeds.

[LS13]

Mayuko wrote: LS13 wrote: It became a football lads pub in the mid 00's due to the landlord at the time. As mentioned above, there was a mural on the wall outside (didnt know GE painted it), and also the plaque to commemorate the two lads who died in Istanbul was sited there. I believe its now been moved to a pub in East Leeds. There are a few pictures in the Service Crew book of lads outside the viaduct, though it incorrectly says its outside the Adelphi. Thank you for the information!! It is surprising to me that it became a football pub only recently, and apparently they were having quite a bit of trouble with other bars around there.. Do you know which pub in East Leeds has the plaque? and I'll check out the photos too.. Thank you!! I'm not sure which pub I'm afraid though The Hope seems to ring a bell.Found this on you tube which may be of interest http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hZhbcz9hQEw

[raveydavey]

BIG N wrote: liits wrote: I wonder why it was known as the Viaduct in 1850, 16 years before a viaduct was built? Maybe - in best Leeds Council tradition, the railway viaduct was announced twenty years before they managed to secure funding and start building it, so they named the pub in anticipation of the event. Of course if that was the case I guess the planned viaduct would have been an eight line wide, double deck affair but what we see now is a much watered down version.walks away whistling quietly     Looking back through council records, you are right - the council initially planned a network of viaducts that would criss-cross the city and provide a fast and efficient transport system for all the citizens of Leeds. However they eventually just built the one viaduct. Despite promises to expand the system and radically upgrade the existing viaduct when more funds became available, this never happened. Veering back onto topic, wasn't there a big hoo-ha to save the Viaduct when it was still a football pub after the Pub Co that owned it put it up for sale?I seem to recall it was "saved", but then shortly afterwards was bought by Terry George and the transformation took place into a showbar.

[String o' beads]

liits wrote: Mayuko wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: ......In those days straight blokes wouldn't even go in a bar with any reputation of it being gay, it wasn't a place to say you'd been either. Gays and straights just didn't mix. Today it seems very different indeed. [ it seems now that going night out in the 'gay area' has become somewhat fashionable, and 'straight people' and 'gay people' are all mixed up, which doesn't approve those gay people purely going there for thei community.. I’m not so sure that it’s become somewhat fashionable. It’s become somewhat of a damn nuisance! Gay venues filled with breeders is not a new phenomenon, far from it! In some cases, it’s why gay venues are dying on their [edited for content] [not a pun]. While I would never describe myself as a militant, banner waving queer, many, like me, object VERY STRONGLY to having their preferred boozer being invaded by straights, either male or female.A sure-fire way of spotting impending doom is the first sight of the Hen Party with their tat veils and L plates. It’s all downhill from there.I suppose this is what comes of social acceptance, diversity and inclusivity, whatever that is. Breeders? Is this a new term we need to put in the slang thread?     

[BIG N]

liits wrote: A sure-fire way of spotting impending doom is the first sight of the Hen Party with their tat veils and L plates. It’s all downhill from there. Oh god, the entire centre of drinking in Leeds is doomed then lol