Leeds Pals

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 25 Jun, 2010 1:23 am

Trojan wrote: cnosni wrote: Trojan wrote: cnosni wrote: As promised,link to Memorial Plaque for Leeds Palshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/4715554210/# Poor devils. Indeed,and for all their sacrifice and blood all they get is a piece of slate on an old farm out building,obscured by bushes.We only stumbled upon it,didnt know it was there.It would be nice to have something just around where they came over the top,about 300 yds up the track near Serre Road Cemetery number 3.Will post on Flickr (cant get anything on here now)the Google image of the are with some of the trenches i transposed from an old trench map,it helped get a fell and a grip for whats around when you are on the ground.Its all surprisingly compact,from the Copses near Serre to Hawthorne Ridge/Jacobs Ladder at Beaumont Hamel I'm possibly going to northern France this autumn, I wouldn't mind seeing it. I've seen the Menin Gate and the cemeteries around Ypres, plus the Belgian museum at Diksmuide. It's all very moving. But the Pals Battalions must be the worst - whole streets of men wiped out or maimed for life. Oh dear have to stop. I know exactly where you are.I was always brought up i the aura of WW2,and rightly so,.it was a noble war,if ever there was one.Though WW2 was probably more signficant politically,WW1 was more significant socially.Those boys,and they were boys,went there and were not found wanting.My great uncle arrived on the continent 2 weeks after his 19th birthday ,he was then thrust into the sheer hell of Hill 60 in May 1915,one of 70 survivors of his Battalion (350 killed),2 weeks in hospital with gas poisonning, then spent a year in the trenches before going over the top in Si's grandads regiment,just south of Serre,to be killed in action on 1st July 1916.You have to walk the ground and see just how beautiful it is now,i saw two pairs of Hen Harriers there,right over the Leeds Pals Trenches,and the Sky larks rising from the fields up to the highest heavens singing their hearts out..... well i cant describe it,i reallly cant.

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 25 Jun, 2010 1:30 am

Trojan wrote: cnosni wrote: Trojan wrote: cnosni wrote: As promised,link to Memorial Plaque for Leeds Palshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/4715554210/# Poor devils. Indeed,and for all their sacrifice and blood all they get is a piece of slate on an old farm out building,obscured by bushes.We only stumbled upon it,didnt know it was there.It would be nice to have something just around where they came over the top,about 300 yds up the track near Serre Road Cemetery number 3.Will post on Flickr (cant get anything on here now)the Google image of the are with some of the trenches i transposed from an old trench map,it helped get a fell and a grip for whats around when you are on the ground.Its all surprisingly compact,from the Copses near Serre to Hawthorne Ridge/Jacobs Ladder at Beaumont Hamel I'm possibly going to northern France this autumn, I wouldn't mind seeing it. I've seen the Menin Gate and the cemeteries around Ypres, plus the Belgian museum at Diksmuide. It's all very moving. But the Pals Battalions must be the worst - whole streets of men wiped out or maimed for life. Oh dear have to stop. Wait til spring Troj,dont see their sacrifice how they did not.see it as they did ,on a beautiful morning.Its much sadder,but more poignant.PS heres a link to the Serre area ,aerial photos,the day before 1st July 1916http://www.pals.org.uk/aerial.htm

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 25 Jun, 2010 7:34 pm

ok,first link to a broader look at the area between Colincamps and Serre.Ive included a small fraction of the trenches (British yellow,Germans red).Purple are existing roads that were there at the time ( i say existing at the time,they appear on the trench map but i would imagine they woul have been pretty difficult to negotiate,see link on precedding message)also marked are the cemeteies that have been discussed and that appear on my Flickr collection.http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/4732971839/

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 25 Jun, 2010 7:50 pm

More closer detail of the area where the Leeds Pals came over the top.Once again i have only shown a few of the trenches,too many for me to put on.I must also add that these trenches are a best guess position and shouldnt be taken as gospel,there will be inconsistances not only in my estimate of the position of the trenches in relation to Google earth images and i also expect some errors on the original as well.It took some time but was very useful getting your barings on the ground.The Leeds Pals,followed by the Bradford Pals came out roughly where Serre Road Cemetery number 3 is.Follow the track that this cemetery is on in a southerly direction.You will see the farm on the main road where the plaque is attached to one of its run down building walls,immediatelty adjacent to the track but low down on the wall and obscured by a bush.BTW the farmer is very friendley,but cant speak a lot of English.anyone visiting the area are more than welcome to use these pictures.http://www.flickr.com/photos/cnosni/4732971839/Also in tonights YEPhttp://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Lee ... 6383967.jp

Lyndoch · Post by **Lyndoch** » Wed 30 Jun, 2010 11:11 pm

Very Interested to hear your comments re Plaque to Leeds Pals:I too visited the site of the battles and noticed that all other cities and towns have prominent plaques to their "Pals" battallons.To visit my Uncles grave in ADANAC Cemetery, When I returned from France I wrote to the then Lord Mayor of Leeds to ask where the Leeds plaque was?The reply I got was that the plaque was at Grassington where they trained before going over to France (I think on the site of the old Leeds school camp)I think it is disgusting that this City is unrepresented heremy visit was in 1993 and as you probably gather I now live in Australia where they really value past deeds done by their lads. Ex R A F Lyndoch South Australia

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Wed 30 Jun, 2010 11:43 pm

here is a link to a picture and description of the Leeds Pals memorial set up in North Yorks:http://www.yorkshire-guide.co.uk/nidder ... .aspxthere is also a website with information on them:www.leeds-pals.com

Lyndoch · Post by **Lyndoch** » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 11:13 am

Hello Steve Thanks for your efforts re memorial to Leeds Pals.You may be interested to know that there was a discussion on the Somme battles on A B C (Australian Broadcasting Commission) Adelaide this morning today July 1st.I was most incensed to think that there is no permanent memorial for Leeds in France,, I don't suppose it will ever happen now.. even Chorley ( Lancs) has a memorial.Thanks for all your comments.Lyndoch Adelaide South Australia

biofichompinc · Post by **biofichompinc** » Wed 10 Oct, 2012 8:56 pm

Just been watching 'The One Show' which included a piece with Peter and Dan Snow.Their bit included notice that Dan is appearing in a special programme on Remembrance Day this year. Somme1916 will probably already be aware of this but just in case, have a look at.....http://press.discovery.com/uk/dsc/progr ... tle-somme/

somme1916 · Post by **somme1916** » Wed 10 Oct, 2012 9:54 pm

salt 'n pepper wrote: Just been watching 'The One Show' which included a piece with Peter and Dan Snow.Their bit included notice that Dan is appearing in a special programme on Remembrance Day this year. Somme1916 will probably already be aware of this but just in case, have a look at.....http://press.discovery.com/uk/dsc/progr ... tle-somme/ Hi S & P,didn't catch the prog and was unaware of the detail but if anybody can present the details in a popular form,it's these two guys.Sadly,the late Richard Holmes was an all round expert on all matters WW1.Still,after initial training up at Colsterdale,the Leeds lads were packed off to France in a totally different environment to the training fields.They experienced some of the fiercest fighting on that particular battleground and some of the stories are legendary.The whole Yorkshire regiments can be proud of their contributions in that and subsequent battles.I will watch out for this as it is a subject I value dearly for many reasons.The futility of the events on the initial day have never been previously or since repeated......approx 57,000 casualties,over 18,000 killed....the 10th West Riding regiment suffered horrendous casualties at Fricourt on the first(jul 1) day of the battle.Many of these were from the Leeds area.As cnosni rightly states,the 15th WY regiment ,popularly asociated with the "Leeds Pals"copped a real bad time additionally.There are numerous stories of heroic actions and only by further reading can you begin to gauge the human sacrifice involved at that particular time.The first week of the battle,over 1.75million shells were fired at a time when the average weekly output from munitions factories was only 100,000/week.......so it was inevitably unsustainable in terms of human endeavour and armament provision. Should you wish to choose a book to find out more about the subject,may I recommend Martin Gilbert's Somme,first published 2006 by John Murray publishing.ISBN 978-0-7195-6890-9

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Wed 10 Oct, 2012 10:43 pm

Lyndoch wrote: Hello Steve Thanks for your efforts re memorial to Leeds Pals.I was most incensed to think that there is no permanent memorial for Leeds in France,, I don't suppose it will ever happen now.. even Chorley ( Lancs) has a memorial.Lyndoch Adelaide South Australia While visiting the Somme a couple of years ago, actually to trace two war graves for a friend, we happened to pull up by chance at the end of a small lane near Serre - scene of one of the worst battles for the Leeds Pals with heavy losses. My own Dad was badly wounded thereabouts, but recovered well enough to lead a full but inconvenienced life. My friend got out of the car and returned soon to say "there's something here you ought to see."It was just a small plaque on a farm wall in appreciation by the locals of what our lads had done in those dark days. The Leeds Pals were mentioned and I believe the Sheffield Pals and two or three other units. I had the most haunting but rewarding feeling that I was close to where Dad had actually been wounded - something I never expected to happen, and I felt that I'd been "specially drawn there" by helping my friend with his quest. I believe that such things do happen !!