Jimmy Savile

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 10 Oct, 2012 11:29 am

BIG N wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: Haven't you just seen the program Big N?It's not long since finished.From what I saw, I doubt many people will want to keep their ''Jim fixed it for me'' badges now. They're wasn't a hint of anyone thinking there was any money to be made out of it. Hi Phill, sorry for the delay in replying to your post but I have a life away from the keyboard lol.No - I didn't manage to see the programme in question as I was working at the time and dont bother recording things these days as I find I only end up with weeks and even months worth of stuff waiting to be watched.Perhaps I could have phrased my previous comments better to make myself more understood, I have no doubt that several of the alledged victims that have now come forward are genuine people who for any number of reasons were far too scared to do so before Jimmy Saville passed away.However, my comment was - "Cant help thinking some people are seeing an easy route to some money in the form of publicity and compensation"And I still feel to a certain extent this could be true, how many of the 120 or so people now offering their stories up as evidence were more than happy as a 15 year old to have the attention of a World famous T.V. celebrity at the time and thought there was nothing wrong with it, even claiming bragging rights amongst their peers of the day, only to come forward now and claim just how badly mis-treated they were?As I said, of course there are genuine victims but there are also people who were not the slightest bit affected at the time now seeking to make a fast buck. I also share your sentiments,but lets not make the genuine claimants who may not have said anything yet stay quiet.Its all bad enough,the allegations at the BBC,but my stomach really really churns about the allegations with regards to the Jersey Childrens home,Haut de la Garenne .

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Wed 10 Oct, 2012 3:04 pm

I think the video of Freddie Starr talking about these allegations is one of the saddest things I've seen.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment ... 892258It's hard to know the full truth yet, but that man looks distraught..

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Wed 10 Oct, 2012 8:45 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: I think the video of Freddie Starr talking about these allegations is one of the saddest things I've seen.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment ... 892258It's hard to know the full truth yet, but that man looks distraught.. That's the problem - mud sticks doesn't it, regardless of being proved innocent or guilty at some distant point down the line?Whilst JS is dead and gone, Freddie Starr is still very much with us and is now being hounded in the media with allegations of a heinous crime, seemingly largely based on the fact he once appeared on a TV show with JS. Going back to JS, Jayne Dawson in the YEP makes interesting reading today...http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... -5008493Is it now possible to cast Jimmy Savile as anything other than the devil incarnate without bringing the sky down on your head?Here at the Yorkshire Evening Post we took the last photographs of him before his death. He is in silhouette and wreathed in cigar smoke.Jimmy was not actually smoking that cigar – he was too unwell – but he was puffing up a storm of smoke at the request of the photographer, and it just so happens that the resulting portrait makes him look demonic – how apt, some might say.So is it now possible to say a word in Jimmy Savile’s defence? Probably not, and maybe he doesn’t deserve it – but let’s have a bit of a discussion anyway.Jimmy was an oddball, wasn’t he? I met him briefly a couple of times, phoned him on stories a few times.There was always the sense that the real man wasn’t actually there, just the rather outdated character he always obligingly put up front, a legacy of the days when entertainment wasn’t required to be as sophisticated as it is now.He admitteed to his oddness, some of it. He even wrote about his sessions with young girls, some of them, talking in his autobiography about encounters and irate parents, as if it was all a bit of a St Trinian’s-style joke.But he also did a lot of good, of that there is no doubt, raised many millions for charity.I suspect Jimmy was a man who actually only felt alive in the public eye, so the publicity was as important as the doing good, but the good part happened, nonetheless.But the big question being asked now is whether the charity work was all a front for darker purposes. Whether, all along, he was a man who wanted a reason to get close to girls, so he could molest them. I’m guessing now, but my feeling is that he was not that man.The specifics are for the police to investigate if they decide to do so, but my view is that we are, in effect, looking at history through modern eyes, using today’s values to judge yesterday’s events, which is compounding our outrage.Jimmy Savile became a big name at the time when the “permissive society” was at its peak: there had been one world, and suddenly there was another.In the old world, the rules were known and understood by everyone, but they were tough rules and the penalties were harsh. Basically, nice girls didn’t, bad girls did. Men, on the other hand, got away with whatever they could get away with. Nice girls got married and had children. They stayed home, their husbands went to work.Bad girls got pregnant and dealt with the consequences – a shotgun wedding, an illegal, dangerous abortion, a secret birth and an adopted baby – or a life lived outside society’s rules.But then along came the new world. There was the Pill, there was the feminist movement, there was the belief that, for women, having sex outside of marriage was empowering and a sign of freedom and independence, and there were teenagers - suddenly and for the first time a labelled group, determined to be free of society’s rules.At the same time, there was music. An explosion of pop, of pirate stations, of Radio One and of DJs, and of groupies and young girls, with all their eager immaturity, interested in exploring a world that didn’t have any rules, and keen to look like experienced women of that new world. Jimmy Savile entered that music world, along with other male DJs. The revered John Peel was a younger contemporary and he went to work in America and, at the age of 26, came home with a 15 year-old bride, who he said had lied about her age – though the prevailing climate was “don’t ask.”Jimmy Savile was older, not handsome, definitely odd, but he found himself in this swirling, youth-obsessed world where no-strings sex with girls was a sign of edgy rebellion. The matter of a powerful person exploiting a younger, more vulnerable, less powerful person, wasn’t discussed. It wasn’t the kind of question that was on the agenda, back then.Those people who sort-of knew at the time and said nothing should not be called guilty. Maybe they weren’t certain, maybe they heard rumours but had no facts, but more than that, maybe they didn’t know what the rules were. Maybe the girls themselves didn’t know what the rules were – couldn’t decide whether they had been favoured or abused.It’s not just a question of challenging the powerful, it’s about knowing when something is right or wrong at a time when society’s moral values are unclear – although hindsight makes them much clearer, of course.That’s not an apology for Jimmy Savile but it is some context. The world is a constantly changing place, we don’t do anyone any favours by pretending it isn’t. I’m just saying.

drapesy · Post by **drapesy** » Wed 10 Oct, 2012 9:26 pm

"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there" wrote L.P.Hartley.I have never doubted the truth of that aphorism, but have always thought of it in terms of the past of a 100 or more years ago.Now I see how it can apply just as much to events within our own lifetimes.

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Thu 11 Oct, 2012 7:16 am

Still on the beach......long blond hair, no it couldn't be...could it?

Derculees · Post by **Derculees** » Fri 12 Oct, 2012 11:25 am

Phill_dvsn wrote: I think the video of Freddie Starr talking about these allegations is one of the saddest things I've seen.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment ... 892258It's hard to know the full truth yet, but that man looks distraught.. Distraught because of the topic yes, but is it only me that's noticed that Freddie's stammer makes him appear even more so. He can't get a full sentence out, perhaps he's 'learned' to mask it as much as poss.

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Fri 12 Oct, 2012 12:43 pm

Derculees wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: I think the video of Freddie Starr talking about these allegations is one of the saddest things I've seen.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment ... 892258It's hard to know the full truth yet, but that man looks distraught.. Distraught because of the topic yes, but is it only me that's noticed that Freddie's stammer makes him appear even more so. He can't get a full sentence out, perhaps he's 'learned' to mask it as much as poss. Didn't Freddie Starr have something to do with a clothes shop on Street Lane, not far from the Pizza place where Savile used to eat? And wasn't there some uproar about the goings on in said shop?

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 12 Oct, 2012 2:32 pm

Chrism wrote: Derculees wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: I think the video of Freddie Starr talking about these allegations is one of the saddest things I've seen.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment ... 892258It's hard to know the full truth yet, but that man looks distraught.. Distraught because of the topic yes, but is it only me that's noticed that Freddie's stammer makes him appear even more so. He can't get a full sentence out, perhaps he's 'learned' to mask it as much as poss. Didn't Freddie Starr have something to do with a clothes shop on Street Lane, not far from the Pizza place where Savile used to eat? And wasn't there some uproar about the goings on in said shop? I know he was a partner in a clothes shop in Oakwood,which went belly up in uncertain circumstances

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Fri 12 Oct, 2012 2:59 pm

cnosni wrote: Chrism wrote: Derculees wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: I think the video of Freddie Starr talking about these allegations is one of the saddest things I've seen.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment ... 892258It's hard to know the full truth yet, but that man looks distraught.. Distraught because of the topic yes, but is it only me that's noticed that Freddie's stammer makes him appear even more so. He can't get a full sentence out, perhaps he's 'learned' to mask it as much as poss. Didn't Freddie Starr have something to do with a clothes shop on Street Lane, not far from the Pizza place where Savile used to eat? And wasn't there some uproar about the goings on in said shop? I know he was a partner in a clothes shop in Oakwood,which went belly up in uncertain circumstances It was Starr and Taylor, where Lucy Harris is now at Oakwood (Think It's Lucy Harris, last hairdresser on the left at the top of Roundhay Road just before you get to Gledhow Lane)

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Fri 12 Oct, 2012 3:38 pm

Taken from an old VIZ annual... ...