Infamous Sons & Daughters of Leeds

iansmithofotley · Post by **iansmithofotley** » Thu 03 Sep, 2009 9:00 pm

Hi everyone,I suspect that 'Marco', who has been mentioned a couple of times, is Marco Marrocco. He, and his brother David, used to have a guest house/hotel called the 'Mar-Ray' in Harehills Lane, mainly run by David. I think that it was once badly damaged in a fire. Marco has been a bouncer, doorman, security man, etc., or otherwise involved with clubs, on and off for over forty years.Ian.

Precinct Boy · Post by **Precinct Boy** » Fri 16 Oct, 2009 10:05 pm

EFL wrote: Eugene Lacy used to be reffered to as the Pudsey Mafia and was an associate of the Kray twins. Sorry all, but as romantic as it may seem in a twisted way and without wanting to offend anyone, I definately don't remember my father ever being known as the Pudsey mafia, he has been dead since 1980, he did lead a shady life, he did know the Kray's, he did have his run ins with the law but in all my 50 years of knowing him he was never refered to as the Pudsey Mafia.All his 'ducking and diving' was in town, or further afield.Some facinating entries on this thread though.I should have added that your father was known as the Pudsey Mafia to the black and white taxi drivers of Leeds.

Si · Post by Si » Tue 03 Nov, 2009 2:59 pm

Si wrote: James Jefferson murdered Elizabeth Todd on Leeds Road just outside Otley in 1908. He had apparently been incarcerated in Leeds for a previous crime, and when released, went back to his native north east. After an argument with his brother-in-law, he returned to Leeds by train. For reasons unknown, he walked to Otley. Before arriving there, he came across the unfortunate Mrs Todd on the road. A passer-by witnessed the attack, and raced to Otley to raise the alarm. When help arrived, it was too late. Jefferson was caught, quite literally, red-handed. He had removed Mrs Todd's head with his brother-in-law's filleting knife. He made no attempt to escape and was taken to the cells in Otley. He pleaded insanity at his trial, giving no reasons for his actions, but was sentenced to death. The sentence was later changed to life imprisonment, and he died in jail. There was a huge turn-out for Mrs Todd's funeral, and local people commemorated her death by carving crosses into the stone wall by the field in which she was killed. I think these can still be seen today, on the left of Leeds Road, travelling toward Leeds, just before Hol Beck Wood. As I've got some time on my hands at the moment, I thought I'd have a wander up Leeds Road and see if the carved memorial crosses (as mentioned in my old post - see above) are still there. I've seen an old photo of them in a book (can't remember which - something like Murders of Wharfedale and Airedale?) but unfortunately they have vanished. Either the wall has been rebuilt, the stones with crosses have been replaced for some reason, or they have been buried by subsequent layers of tarmac due to road resurfacing/widening/recambering. There's only two or three courses showing above the level of the path. I was definately in the right place, as there was another, wider contemporary shot in the same book, of locals pointing into the field where the beheading took place.It would be a great shame if these rustic crosses, carved by ordinary folk in memory of this poor woman were lost forever.Shades of the Crown and Fleece Skulls?...

Post by **cnosni** » Wed 04 Nov, 2009 2:24 am

Th e Crown and Fleece has a new sign above it,Leeds Central Club

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Thu 12 Nov, 2009 12:26 am

Anyone read this book? It came out in 2005.it looks interesting and I have never heard of the case involved:Book: Murder, Magic, Madness: The Victorian Trials Of Dove And The Wizard This] is a straightforward piece of well-researched and exciting microhistory. The story is a tragic one, and told with a skill that genuinely seizes and holds the attention, and makes the sections of historical analysis easily digestible by any readership. There is a cast of colourful and unpleasant characters, who are very well drawn and in whom interest is sustained from start to finish...In sum, it combines some of the best skills of the storyteller and the analytical historian.Professor Ronald Hutton, University of Bristol [Owen] Davies has a formidable track-record as a historian of popular magic and cunning folk in eighteenth and nineteenth-century England, and he uses his expertise in this area to weave into the story of Dove's downfall the world of fortune tellers, popular physicians, and popular occult practitioners... The mental and cultural world of a northern Methodist family is reconstructed deftly and interestingly [and] the Leeds of the period is admirably evoked.Professor James Sharpe, University of York In 1856 William Dove, the son of a respected Methodist merchant, was tried for poisoning his wife. Believing the prediction of Henry Harrison, the 'Leeds Wizard', that he would remarry a more attractive and richer woman, he made a pact with the devil and murdered his wife. Was he mad? Or was he one of the foulest murderers in the annals of crime? The trials of Dove and the wizard sensationally exposed a world of popular magic that had remained largely hidden from middle-class Victorian eyes.In 1856 William Dove, a young tenant farmer, was tried and executed for the poisoning of his wife Harriet. The trial might have been a straightforward case of homicide, but because Dove became involved with Henry Harrison, a Leeds wizard, and demonstrated through his actions and words a strong belief in magic and the powers of the devil, considerable effort was made to establish whether these beliefs were symptomatic of insanity. It seems that Dove murdered his wife to hasten a prediction made by Harrison that he would remarry a more attractive and wealthy woman. Dove employed Harrison to perform various acts of magic, and also made his own written pact with the devil to improve his personal circumstances. The book will study Dove's beliefs and Harrison's activities within the rural and urban communities in which they lived, and examine how modern cultures attempted to explain this largely hidden mental world, which was so sensationally exposed. The Victorian period is often portrayed as an age of great social and educational progress. This book shows how beliefs dismissed by some Victorians as 'medieval superstitions' continued to influence the thoughts and actions of many people, viz most famously Conan table tapper' Doyle. " It is a straightforward piece of well-researched and exciting microhistory. The story is a tragic one, and told with a skill that genuinely seizes and holds the attention, and makes the sections of historical analysis easily digestible by any readership. There is a cast of colourful and unpleasant characters, who are very well drawn and in whom interest is sustained from start to finish. . In sum, it combines some of the best skills of thestoryteller and the analytical historian."Professor Ronald Hutton, University of Bristol.

Hannibal69 · Post by **Hannibal69** » Thu 12 Nov, 2009 12:46 am

Steve Jones wrote: Anyone read this book? It came out in 2005.it looks interesting and I have never heard of the case involved:Book: Murder, Magic, Madness: The Victorian Trials Of Dove And The Wizard This] is a straightforward piece of well-researched and exciting microhistory. The story is a tragic one, and told with a skill that genuinely seizes and holds the attention, and makes the sections of historical analysis easily digestible by any readership. There is a cast of colourful and unpleasant characters, who are very well drawn and in whom interest is sustained from start to finish...In sum, it combines some of the best skills of the storyteller and the analytical historian.Professor Ronald Hutton, University of Bristol [Owen] Davies has a formidable track-record as a historian of popular magic and cunning folk in eighteenth and nineteenth-century England, and he uses his expertise in this area to weave into the story of Dove's downfall the world of fortune tellers, popular physicians, and popular occult practitioners... The mental and cultural world of a northern Methodist family is reconstructed deftly and interestingly [and] the Leeds of the period is admirably evoked.Professor James Sharpe, University of York In 1856 William Dove, the son of a respected Methodist merchant, was tried for poisoning his wife. Believing the prediction of Henry Harrison, the 'Leeds Wizard', that he would remarry a more attractive and richer woman, he made a pact with the devil and murdered his wife. Was he mad? Or was he one of the foulest murderers in the annals of crime? The trials of Dove and the wizard sensationally exposed a world of popular magic that had remained largely hidden from middle-class Victorian eyes.In 1856 William Dove, a young tenant farmer, was tried and executed for the poisoning of his wife Harriet. The trial might have been a straightforward case of homicide, but because Dove became involved with Henry Harrison, a Leeds wizard, and demonstrated through his actions and words a strong belief in magic and the powers of the devil, considerable effort was made to establish whether these beliefs were symptomatic of insanity. It seems that Dove murdered his wife to hasten a prediction made by Harrison that he would remarry a more attractive and wealthy woman. Dove employed Harrison to perform various acts of magic, and also made his own written pact with the devil to improve his personal circumstances. The book will study Dove's beliefs and Harrison's activities within the rural and urban communities in which they lived, and examine how modern cultures attempted to explain this largely hidden mental world, which was so sensationally exposed. The Victorian period is often portrayed as an age of great social and educational progress. This book shows how beliefs dismissed by some Victorians as 'medieval superstitions' continued to influence the thoughts and actions of many people, viz most famously Conan table tapper' Doyle. " It is a straightforward piece of well-researched and exciting microhistory. The story is a tragic one, and told with a skill that genuinely seizes and holds the attention, and makes the sections of historical analysis easily digestible by any readership. There is a cast of colourful and unpleasant characters, who are very well drawn and in whom interest is sustained from start to finish. . In sum, it combines some of the best skills of thestoryteller and the analytical historian."Professor Ronald Hutton, University of Bristol. Hi Steve,The story rings a bell, but I haven't read the book. I'm reading "The Pillars of Tubal Cain" at the moment.Best wishes,Han.

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Thu 12 Nov, 2009 12:58 pm

I posted it on page 4, maybe that's why it rings a bell.

Hannibal69 · Post by **Hannibal69** » Thu 12 Nov, 2009 4:49 pm

Chrism wrote: I posted it on page 4, maybe that's why it rings a bell. Hi Chris,Sorry Chris, my fault. I hadn't read all the way down to the bottom of page 4, it started to all get to be about the BNP and I really didn't need that, so I never got to your post. Have looked back now and read it, thank you for posting it. I was remembering the case from a book, which I have now managed to dig out from underneath the hugh pile of other books it the spare room that I laughing call a library!!! lol."Foul Deeds and Suspicious Deaths in Leeds." David Goodman. Wharncliffe Books. 2003. I will apologise now if this book has already been mentioned before, I'm sorry but I haven't had the time to go back and read every post on the forum.Best wishes,Han.

wilfbarr · Post by **wilfbarr** » Sat 02 Jan, 2010 5:41 pm

carith wrote: dsco wroteAnyone know where either his home addresses were? Can't find them on a modern map... do our 'old map' experts have any ideas?Somerset street was in the quarry Hill area and Springfield Terrace is listed (1901 Census)as in the Burmantoft area the parish of St Stephens their was an article in the yorkshire evening post about him wilfbarr

wilfbarr · Post by **wilfbarr** » Sat 02 Jan, 2010 6:08 pm

Chrism wrote: Brandy wrote: Out of them all steve i find this one the most worrying mate! even worse is that it lists her 15yr old daughter as a member of the YBNP! intact il take the pic down,even though its common knowledge and easily available to the public I dont think theres any place for it on here. I knew this would happen, we were only chatting about this the day after the list was put on t'internet!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7741270.stm was't that Arthure hutchinson Wilfbarr