Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

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harrym1byt
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun 22 Mar, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by harrym1byt »

iansmithofotley wrote:
Wed 31 Dec, 2014 11:23 pm
Our D.S. was David Harry Clarkson. David ended up as a Ch. Supt. and he was in charge of Holbeck Division when I was an inspector there in 1988. I understand that David has been quite ill recently and has returned to live in the Leeds area.
Ian
Was that Dave Clarkson who lived at Garforth?

harrym1byt
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun 22 Mar, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by harrym1byt »

harrym1byt wrote:
Tue 18 Aug, 2020 9:12 pm
iansmithofotley wrote:
Wed 31 Dec, 2014 11:23 pm
Our D.S. was David Harry Clarkson. David ended up as a Ch. Supt. and he was in charge of Holbeck Division when I was an inspector there in 1988. I understand that David has been quite ill recently and has returned to live in the Leeds area.
Ian
Was that Dave Clarkson who lived at Garforth?
A bit more research suggests it was.

He lived just around the corner from where I live and a bit of a family friend. He spent his final years sadly in a mobility scooter and passed away in 2015.

iansmithofotley
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri 28 Dec, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by iansmithofotley »

When I first worked with David Harry Clarkson, in the C.I.D. at Ireland Wood Police Station in 1967, he lived at Templenewsam, with his wife Dorothy and their family. At that time, he owned some land in Garforth, which I think he bought as an investment with a view to future development but there were problems with planning permission. He also owned a shop in Garforth, which I think was managed by Dorothy.

After David’s retirement from the Police Force around the early 1990's, he moved out to the Ryedale area of Yorkshire, near to Malton, and got involved in local politics. Eventually, David suffered from Motor Neuron Disease and returned to the Leeds/Garforth area, but I don’t know when this was as I lost touch with him.

David died on 17th October 2015 aged 76 years. His wife, Dorothy, died recently on 23rd July 2020 aged 82 years.

I have great memories of working with David and he was great fun to work with. There was never a dull moment due to his charismatic personality and style. He also ‘led from the front’ and was an inspirational leader. I learned a great deal from him.

harrym1byt
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun 22 Mar, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by harrym1byt »

The shop, which is still there, I think I am correct in suggesting it is 'Dorothy Annes' on Main St Garforth. I also think I am correct in suggesting he ended up living in a large house on Church Lane, Garforth. A really nice guy.

jma
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri 05 Aug, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by jma »

Rather late in the day but I see that wikipedia says that Yvonne Fletcher's number was 4257.

I don't know how reliable that is because I believe all Met officers have a unique warrant number allocated when they are attested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher

iansmithofotley
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri 28 Dec, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by iansmithofotley »

Hi Mick – I always thought that the London Metropolitan Police was the only force that had ’Warrant Numbers’. The ‘Warrant Number’ was a distinct number, which remained with an officer from joining, until retiring or leaving and it remained despite any future promotions. It is possible that other forces had a similar system, but I don’t know.

I thought that the ‘Warrant Number’ was a different number from the ‘Collar Number’, which was the only ‘number’ allocated for officers in the other forces, as far as I am aware. In the Met., I don’t know if it is still the same but Collar Numbers could change when officers moved between different departments or divisions and often had the Police Station Divisional Code, in letters besides the collar number.

As you are well aware, when you and I were promoted to the rank of sergeant in the West Yorkshire Police and the Leeds City Police, we kept the same Collar Numbers (153 and 681) but when we were promoted to the rank of inspector in the West Yorkshire Police, we lost our Collar Numbers and had no other ‘number’ for operational purposes (we had a ‘Man Number’ for Administration and Pay purposes but it was never displayed anywhere other than on pay slips).

Having said all this, I found a website about Met. Warrant Numbers and it shows that Warrant Numbers were just a consecutive number for officers who had joined the Met. since 1829.

So far as relates to Yvonne Fletcher, she joined the Met. in 1977 and was issued the Warrant Number 4257, as you have said. I presume that this was possibly her Collar Number as well (but it may not have been). However, looking at the charts on the website, it is hard to believe that male officers, nowadays, have Collar Numbers of six digits (and possibly one or two Divisional letters as well). I also noticed that female officers in the Met. used to have their own consecutive Warrant Numbers but the numbers became consecutive for male and female officers, together, from 1993 (no doubt due to the Equal Opportunities trend at about that time).

http://www.historybytheyard.co.uk/warrant_nos.htm

Having said all this, I found this article about the Met. which shows that everything has now changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collar_number

Although Wikipedia is a brilliant website, the information is not always 100% accurate.

There are a couple of photographs showing Metropolitan Policewomen displaying their Collar Numbers on this website. These Collar Numbers do not match those shown on the Warrant Numbers site.

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-n ... s-15994257

Ian

jma
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri 05 Aug, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Former West Yorks Police Officer's collar numbers

Post by jma »

In the far off days when I used to read the Police Review whenever retirements were listed, Met officers' warrant numbers were published. I cannot remember how many digits they had reached then, but it was way too many to fit a collar or epaulette, and it will be even more now. I hadn't realised that women originally had a different series of warrant numbers. Whoever raised the query about Yvonne Fletcher wanted to know what number would have been on her uniform.

When the personnel system was computerised in West Yorkshire, they began again with numbers to include year of joining. I can't remember mine because I never used it but it begins 67. At some stage, senior officers were required to wear numbers in certain circumstances such as public order. I only know that because I saw one of my neighbours on the box when he was a chief inspector and for a moment, I thought he had grabbed a PC's raincoat to keep dry.

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