Leeds news on today's date (Oct 16) in 1848 and 1863.

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Tue 16 Oct, 2012 11:03 am

The following are from John Mayhall's 'Annals of Yorkshire':-October 16 1848. "The Leeds Moral and Industrial Training School was formally opened this day...It is pleasantly situated at Burmantofts, occupying an eligible and elevated site of six acres in extent, including the play-ground and garden...The admission to the school is vested absolutely in the Board of Guardians, and the inmates generally consist of orphans or deserted children; but there are also a few who are children of deserving resident poor. They are received at an early age, and are immediately placed under the superintendence of the schoolmaster or schoolmistress to be taught industrial work. The building has accommodation for about 400 children and youths, and has often from 230 to 300 inmates."The building is still there, being part of St. James Hospital close to the Chancellor Wing. This is a link to an old but undated image in Leodis:- http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... 913October 16 1863. “The annual police statistics of Leeds showed that the police force of the borough was 256, or one for every 809 of the population, and 90 square acres, at an annual cost of £16,108 13s. 5d. During the year there were 286 males and 114 females proceeded against for indictable offences, and 4691 males and 1212 females proceeded against summarily.”I like the very precise £16,108 13s 5d.

somme1916 · Post by **somme1916** » Tue 16 Oct, 2012 1:38 pm

Leodian wrote: The following are from John Mayhall's 'Annals of Yorkshire':-October 16 1848. "The Leeds Moral and Industrial Training School was formally opened this day...It is pleasantly situated at Burmantofts, occupying an eligible and elevated site of six acres in extent, including the play-ground and garden...The admission to the school is vested absolutely in the Board of Guardians, and the inmates generally consist of orphans or deserted children; but there are also a few who are children of deserving resident poor. They are received at an early age, and are immediately placed under the superintendence of the schoolmaster or schoolmistress to be taught industrial work. The building has accommodation for about 400 children and youths, and has often from 230 to 300 inmates."The building is still there, being part of St. James Hospital close to the Chancellor Wing. This is a link to an old but undated image in Leodis:- http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... 913October 16 1863. “The annual police statistics of Leeds showed that the police force of the borough was 256, or one for every 809 of the population, and 90 square acres, at an annual cost of £16,108 13s. 5d. During the year there were 286 males and 114 females proceeded against for indictable offences, and 4691 males and 1212 females proceeded against summarily.”I like the very precise £16,108 13s 5d. Yes Leo, an average salary of just under £63 for the year.....doesn't seem much but I suppose it was better than being an "inmate" at The Leeds Moral and Training school ! Sounds very much like a house of correction..........

James · Post by **James** » Tue 16 Oct, 2012 2:38 pm

Leodian wrote: The following are from John Mayhall's 'Annals of Yorkshire':-October 16 1848. "The Leeds Moral and Industrial Training School was formally opened this day...It is pleasantly situated at Burmantofts, occupying an eligible and elevated site of six acres in extent, including the play-ground and garden...The admission to the school is vested absolutely in the Board of Guardians, and the inmates generally consist of orphans or deserted children; but there are also a few who are children of deserving resident poor. They are received at an early age, and are immediately placed under the superintendence of the schoolmaster or schoolmistress to be taught industrial work. The building has accommodation for about 400 children and youths, and has often from 230 to 300 inmates." I'd be interested to learn something about the 'training' that pauper children and orphans received at this institution. I haven't turned up anything on Google that describes the 'curriculum'. But I found the following bit of information (at a website devoted to the history of Workhouses) which suggests that the original inmates at Beckett Street were unruly and gave the teachers a hard time:"One of the first acts of the Leeds Guardians was the erection, in 1846-8, of the Moral and Industrial Training Schools, located on the north side of Beckett Street in Leeds. The school experienced early problems because of the ineffectualness of its headmaster, the Revd William Taylor Dixon, and also the Guardians' insistence that children should work at shoe-making for nine hours a day. Dixon resigned but his successor, the Revd Charles H Nicholls, fared little better. It was reported that he "allowed himself to get in such a state with the children that he foamed at the mouth." In October, 1853, another master of the school, Joseph Linsley Kirk, was accused of habitual drunkenness, swearing and fighting. After an inquiry, the schools rules and regulations were overhauled but Kirk and his wife remained in post".

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Tue 16 Oct, 2012 6:15 pm

Cheers somme1916. I also thought that the use of "inmates" was odd. Perhaps its usage had less a connection to prisoners at that time than it does now. I dare to think what would be the response if schoolkids were referred to now as 'inmates'.Thanks also James. That is an interesting report and also a bit funny (well it is to me!). I liked the "another master of the school...was accused of habitual drunkenness, swearing and fighting". That sounds like what a teacher might feel like doing now at some schools!

somme1916 · Post by **somme1916** » Tue 16 Oct, 2012 8:36 pm

Leodian wrote: Cheers somme1916. I also thought that the use of "inmates" was odd. Perhaps its usage had less a connection to prisoners at that time than it does now. I dare to think what would be the response if schoolkids were referred to now as 'inmates'.Thanks also James. That is an interesting report and also a bit funny (well it is to me!). I liked the "another master of the school...was accused of habitual drunkenness, swearing and fighting". That sounds like what a teacher might feel like doing now at some schools! Aye,I'd read that particular account somewhere before.....what an unruly lot those ENE Leeds must have been back then !Cheers for all the input(Leo/James)....love to read 'em !

chemimike · Post by **chemimike** » Wed 17 Oct, 2012 12:38 am

In july 1849 a medical inspector visiting the school stated that it was one of the best establishments he had seen in the country and seemed particularly well conducted , and that the condition of the children in respect to appearence was better than he recalled seeing elsewhereHowever in 1856 a fire , probably caused by the children playing with fire caused £300-350 worth of damage (see below)

James · Post by **James** » Wed 17 Oct, 2012 8:51 am

chemimike wrote: In july 1949 a medical inspector visiting the school stated that it was one of the best establishments he had seen in the country and seemed particularly well conducted , and that the condition of the children in respect to appearence was better than he recalled seeing elsewhere. There's typo here: I think the inspector visited in 1849.I note that the fire was put out by engines from the insurance companies with an interest in the building - although I believe a municipal fire brigade existed at that time. When I lived in Leeds I must have seen this historic building many and many a time but never took much notice of it. Next time I visit Leeds, I'll make a point of going to look at it closely.

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Wed 17 Oct, 2012 10:29 am

Thanks chemimike for your interesting input.I think one surprising thing James is that the building is still there and had not been demolished for a modern one at some stage. It is a very noticeable building, probably because of its appearance and obvious old age.

somme1916 · Post by **somme1916** » Wed 17 Oct, 2012 10:29 am

James wrote: chemimike wrote: In july 1949 a medical inspector visiting the school stated that it was one of the best establishments he had seen in the country and seemed particularly well conducted , and that the condition of the children in respect to appearence was better than he recalled seeing elsewhere. There's typo here: I think the inspector visited in 1849.I note that the fire was put out by engines from the insurance companies with an interest in the building - although I believe a municipal fire brigade existed at that time. When I lived in Leeds I must have seen this historic building many and many a time but never took much notice of it. Next time I visit Leeds, I'll make a point of going to look at it closely. That's a great snippet from the past.Love the colourful and dramatic use of language to highlight the event.The Victorians were renowned for their sense of melodrama.Still,I think it helps to highlight the sense of the apparent danger and impending loss.Bit OTT by modern standards I appreciate.Good report nevertheless.Thanks for posting.

chemimike · Post by **chemimike** » Wed 17 Oct, 2012 11:23 am

Thank you James for the correction (which I have now corrected). It is not the first time i have made the error of replacing the 18 with a 19. Maybe I subconsciously wiah to be back in that time.