Frank Wedgwood..I need your help cnosni, PLEEEASE!!!

[cnosni]

liits wrote: mhoulden wrote: Impressive stuff. What software do you use for the family tree? I've got a big sprawling diagram done in Visio but there must be a better way. Most of the family come from the East Riding, Northern Ireland, Scotland or Germany and had fairly low level jobs so I don't think I'm related to anyone rich or famous. Its all done in Photshop. I've tried using the Tree Builder type rubbish that comes with various family history sites and they don't do what they say on the tin. If you use Photoshop. You at least get to decide who goes where and in what style / format, what other bits do / do not appear etc, etc.     No they dont Liits,they are never straight forward,especially when you are tring to export a small part of your tree as a gedcom,all it wants to do is print a tree!!

[cnosni]

Just as an aside one of my direct ancestors had a brush with at Thomas Wedgewood of Raw in Fylingdales in 1764.The York Cause Papers online are worth a visit and a search for ancestors.http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/causepapers/I was lucky and struck gold on a few occasions,but this one in RAw not only confirmed what i suspected was the relationship of two men in Fylingdales (two William Trattles who i had believed were father and son) but also confirmed their occupations and the age of the father William,and this made me alter the top of my tree with this family.If anyones interested i can post a transcript of the Cause Paper concerned,its pretty slanderous.

[Caron]

cnosni wrote: Just as an aside one of my direct ancestors had a brush with at Thomas Wedgewood of Raw in Fylingdales in 1764.The York Cause Papers online are worth a visit and a search for ancestors.http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/causepapers/I was lucky and struck gold on a few occasions,but this one in RAw not only confirmed what i suspected was the relationship of two men in Fylingdales (two William Trattles who i had believed were father and son) but also confirmed their occupations and the age of the father William,and this made me alter the top of my tree with this family.If anyones interested i can post a transcript of the Cause Paper concerned,its pretty slanderous. Hi cnosni. Yes please!!Thanks.    

[cnosni]

Caron wrote: cnosni wrote: Just as an aside one of my direct ancestors had a brush with at Thomas Wedgewood of Raw in Fylingdales in 1764.The York Cause Papers online are worth a visit and a search for ancestors.http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/causepapers/I was lucky and struck gold on a few occasions,but this one in RAw not only confirmed what i suspected was the relationship of two men in Fylingdales (two William Trattles who i had believed were father and son) but also confirmed their occupations and the age of the father William,and this made me alter the top of my tree with this family.If anyones interested i can post a transcript of the Cause Paper concerned,its pretty slanderous. Hi cnosni. Yes please!!Thanks.     Ok,will do,i will tidy up the transcript and put it on this thread.Not to do with Leeds though,so will just post it and then take it off when everyone has read it

[Caron]

Great, thanks.Don't agree with it being nothing to with Leeds though I'm Leeds born n bred and so were my parents and Josiah's a first cousin of mine so there is a Leeds connection to the Wedgwoods     

[cnosni]

Ok here goesThe two William Trattles mentioned are my direct ancestorsYork Cause Papers – Complaint of William Trattles against Thomas WedgwoodIn the name of God Amen Before you the worshipfull Robert Roper Doctor of laws official Principal of the consistory Court of York lawfully authorised or your Surrogate or any other competent Judge in this behalf the Proctor of William Trattles against Thomas Wedgewood of Raw in the parochial Chapelry of Flyingdales and Diocese of York yeoman and against other person or persons whatsoever lawfully intervening and appearing for him in Judgment in his behalf by way of complaint and how by complaining to you in his behalf doth say allege and by these presents in Law propound jointly severally and articulately as follows, that is to say1. That the said William Trattles was and is a Person of Good fame and upright life and conversation and Defamed or aspersed with no crime at least notorious whatsoever saving what is hereafter mentioned and for and as sure a one he was and is commonly Saxd held had esteemed and reputed to be publicly and notoriously within the parochial Chapelry of Flyingdales aforesaid and other neighbouring and adjacent places and he doth Propound jointly and severally as above2. That the said Thomas Wedgewood the promises not withstanding in the Months of March April May and June in the year of our Lord one thousand Seven hundred and Sixty four now Current but more particularly on or about the fourth day of June aforesaid or in some one or other of the said Months at Raw in the Parochial Chapelry of Flyingdales aforesaid in the Diocese of York and other Neighbouring and adjacent places maliciously and with an intent to Defame and Slander the said William Trattles did Defame and Slander him and did speak and report several Slanderous and Defamatory words to of or against him the said William Trattles and especially those words following or words to the like effect to wit The said Thomas Wedgewood Speaking to him the said William Trattles Said and reported tho falsely you meaning the said William Trattles Go a Whoring with other Mens Wives meaning and implying thereby that he the said Wm Trattles was a whoremaster and had committed the crime of fornication or adultery with other men’s wives as the witness then by and present understood he meant which said Slanderous and Defamatory words he the said Thomas Wedgewood spoke and reiterated several times or once at the least in the presence and hearing of several Credible Witnesses and the party Proponent doth allege or such time place manner and formPage 3form of the promises and of such other Slanderous and Defamatory words as shall appear in the event of this Suit and jointly and severally as before.3. That the said Thomas Wedgewood after the promises hath diverse and sundry times before several credible witnesses as well in as out of the Presence of the said William Trattles openly and publickly confessed and acknowledged that he did report and Speak the aforesaid Slanderous and defamatory words to of or against him the said William Trattles and the Party Proponent doth all alledge as before.4. That by reason of speaking the said Slanderous and Defamatory Words the Good Name Fame and Character of the said William Trattles is very much lessened and Impaired with Grave and sober persons with and from whom he heretofore had a Good Name and Character and in all likelihood may be more lessened and Impaired hereafter and the Party Proponent doth alledge as before.5. That the said Thomas Wedgewood was and is of Raw in the Parochial Chapelry of Flyingdales and Diocese of York and by reason thereof Subject to the Jurisdiction of this Court and he doth alledge as before.6. That all and singular the promises were and are true publick and notorious and thereof there was and is a publick voice and fame in the places aforesaid and other places adjacent and he doth alledge as before.Whereof Proof sufficient in Law being made of the promises the Party Proponent prays right and Justice to be done and administered to him and his Party and the said Thomas Wedgewood for his Rashness in the promises to be Ecclesiastically Corrected and punished and also to be condemned in Lawfull Costs by and on the part and behalf of the said William Trattles by reason of this Suit necessarily made or to be made humbly Praying a Sentence or final Decree to compel the said Thomas Wedgewood to pay the same and further to do and Decree in the promises what shall be lawfull in this behalf not obliging himself to Prove all and singular the promisses nor the burthen of Superfluous proof against which the Party Proponent Protests and Prays that so far as he shall prove in the promisses he may obtain the benefit of the Law being always preserved humbly Imploring the aid of your office in this behalf.Page 4 contains repeat informationPage 528 February 1765 Reported before W Stables Surr                                                                     1.Abigail the wife of Richard Burton of Raw near Robin Hoods Bay in the diocese of York mariner aged forty seven years a witness produced admitted and sworn upon the positions and Articles of a Libel given into court and admitted by and on the part and behalf of William Trattles against Thomas Wedgwood doth upon her examination say and depose as followsUpon the Second and fifth Articles of the said Libel the Deponent saith that the producent William Trattles and the libellate Thomas Wedgewood live near each other at Raw aforesaid and their garths or orchards adjoin upon each other being only divided by fences and the garth or orchard belonging the house the Deponent lives in is only parted from them by a High road that leads betwixt them That about Noon one Day last Summer the Deponent was in her own Garth and the said William Trattles and Thomas Wedgwood were each of them in their Garths also when some high words arose betwixt them and the said Thomas Wedgwood told the said William Trattles that he was a Rogue and stole Turves to warm his whores with and that he whored with other mens wives and the Deponent understood that the said Thomas Wedgwood hereby meant and intended to charge the said William Trattles with having been guilty of the crime of fornication or adultery with some married women That old William Trattles father of the party producent was at that time standing by his Son and the said Thomas Wedgwood’s wife was by him and heard the said words spoken She saith She doth not remember the Day the said words were spoken but her Husband was then at Sea and having before he went order’d the Deponent a monthly pay of half a Guinea from the owners of the Ship he went in which She received about the first of every month She remembers it was about the time of one of those payments and as She believes about the fourth Day of the month and to the best of her Remembrance the Month of July last She saith the said Thomas Wedgwood then lived and now lives at Raw aforesaid which is in the parochial Chapelry of Flyingdales further She cannot depose:Upon the rest She is not required to be Examined She saith She is not related to either of the parties in Suit that She has not been told what to swar that She has no Reward or promise of any for being a witness cares not who gets the cause if Justice be but done.The mark of Abigail Burton ……. b……Page 628th Febry 1765Repeated before W Stables Surr                                                                         2.William Trattles of Raw in Flyingdales in the diocese of York Farmer aged above seventy five years a witness produced admitted and sworn as before doth upon his Examination say and depose as follows.Upon the second and fifth Articles of the said Libel the Depon’t Saith that on or about the fourth Day of June last past to the best of his Belief and upon a Tuesday as he believes he this Depon’t and the producent William Trattles his Son were together in their Grounds and the libellate Thomas Wedgwood was at the Same time in his Ground adjoining and the said Thomas Wedgwood speaking to the deponent’s Son Said he was a Rogue and a Thief and had stole his the said Thomas Wedgwood’s Turves to warm his whores with and that he could prove that he laid with another man’s wife and the Depon’t apprehended that the said Thos. Wedgwood thereby intended to charge this Deponent’s said Son with the Crime of Fornication or adultery. He saith that the said words were spoken about five o’clock in the Afternoon to the best of his Remembrance and that his precontest Abigail Burton was at that time in her own Garth at a little Distance and had an opportunity of hearing the said words spoken and the Deponent did not observe that any Body also could hear them except Thomas Wedgwood’s wife who was with him helping him to stack Turves That the said Thomas Wedgwood at the time of speaking the said words did live and now lives at Raw aforesaid and further he cannot depose.Upon the rest he is not required to be Examined He saith as before he is own Father to the producent William Trattles that what he has deposed is to the best of his knowledge and not from any Instruction that he gives his Testimony for the Sake of Justice which he hopes will prevail in the Cause.The mark of William Trattles …..t….

[somme1916]

Phew !.....takes some de-ciphering all that cnosni......great bit of historical record though....wonder how it turned out ? (unless the post tells us....i ain't sure myself)...love these old bits of the past.

[cnosni]

somme1916 wrote: Phew !.....takes some de-ciphering all that cnosni......great bit of historical record though....wonder how it turned out ? (unless the post tells us....i ain't sure myself)...love these old bits of the past. There appears to be no "outcome" or "sentence" that i can find.Clearly the accusations of Thomas Wedgewood were unsupportable because there are no records of a witness on his behalf.What i am hoping to find is there may be some other contemporary records from the still existing "Court Leet" for Robin Hoods Bay/Fylingdales.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_leetI found out about their existance during a visit to Robin Hoods Bay a few years ago.Not sure if any 18th century records survive,but if they do i will try and look at them at some stage.MY family history research is in the 16th/17th and 18th century at the moment,something id promised myself i would leave on the back burner til i was in my retirement.But the ever increasing amount of online records and the worry of poor eyesite in older years are making me do this now.Its not cheap,ordering Wills and paying for translation where its needed but better the expense now when im working and earning.

[Caron]

"Stole turves to warm his whores"....Love it!!Thanks for your work cnosni and apologies for my ancestors behaviour though it did make me laugh. There is another slander case for Wedgwood but I need to pay to access it so I won't bother as it's expensive. The case I mention was in the 1600's.I have looked at my family tree and I think I'm correct in saying that the Thomas Wedgwood you mention was the son of my 6xgrt grandparents, John and Mary Wedgwood. Thomas was born in 1723 and died in 1784 so he would have been 41yrs old when the case you mention happened. His parents lived in Yearsley,his father is buried at St Michael's Church, Coxwold. Thomas's brother, Robert, was a Pot Maker and also lived in Coxwold.I will stop there or I'll just go on and on and on and on (thanks to Liits brill detective work!)     

[Jogon]

CaronJust looking for a prezzie when I thought I caught a glimpse of youhttp://tinyurl.com/99xx7yb