SecretLeeds - History, culture and architecture in Leeds

I well remember the Smyths (yes we did pronounce it Smythes) Arms on Gelderd Road from my earliest drinking days in 1974. It was very down at heel then but still had Tetley Mild and bitter on handpumps with autovacs. There was a large concert room at the back where folk nights were held and a pool table (new idea !) in the tap room. I preferred the Cattle Market further along at the junction of Smithfield Street. Another fine Tetley house which at that time had new tenants but still had the old handpumps and autovacs. The pub was very ornate with mosaic floors and Burmantofts tiles everywehere. It is criminal that these places were demolished. I believe the Garden Gate at Hunslet still survives untouched, but the city was full of such places in the early seventies. I moved darn sarf (sob!!) in 1978 but both pubs were still open then. The old cattle market itself (see thread) as occupied by Schweppes Ltd then which later became winerite.

Aah! The Smyths Arms we used to go in there on a friday after work and huddle round the open fire with our pints of bitter!

An interesting thread, which has answered a couple of questions for me. I grew up in Holbeck/Beeston, and reckoned that I knew the Cattle Market stretch of Gelderd Road road pretty well (I went to school on Brown Lane). However, since recently taking up a job in the area, it's become obvious that my knowledge is pretty poor. After work, I usually walk into town for the train home, and have taken every conceivable route involving Whitehall, Gelderd & Elland Roads. Most of it is still familiar, despite obvious changes, but the bit that I just can't work out is the original configuration of the Gelderd Rd/Whitehall Rd intersection. So, I have a question:Was it ever possible to cross Whitehall Rd by driving straight along Gelderd Rd, and vice versa? I can imagine that this would have been a very busy area in the days before the Ingram Distributor, so this junction must have been a real bottleneck. There are photographs on Leodis which show a sort of 'central reservation' which appears to rule out a simple crossroads junction, and suggests that a rudimentary gyratory system of one-ways was in operation. An old AA route map of mine shows Spence Lane and Smithfield Street to be involved in this somehow. Can anyone remember the traffic flow patterns around this intersection?Hoping someone can help ...When we lived on Domestic Street, my Dad would sometimes take us in the car to the Crown Cinema on Tong Rd. I remember that the route started with Domestic St & Spence Lane, and finished with a right turn into Copley Hill before reaching Wellington St/Tong Rd. I can't remember the bit in the middle though! If we'd turned left from Spence Lane into Whitehall Rd (at the Corner House), how would we have progressed to a right turn into Copley Hill?

Hi Tarkus,I don't remember the old road layout round there, unfortunately, but do you recall a pickle factory? I think it was on Pleasant Street? Cheers,Si.

Does this help?http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... PLAY=FULLI find trying to make sense out of what was where around here quite difficult.

Si wrote: Hi Tarkus,I don't remember the old road layout round there, unfortunately, but do you recall a pickle factory? I think it was on Pleasant Street? Cheers,Si. Hello SiYes, I do remember this. We lived on Pleasant View, which was the next street up from Pleasant Street. So, Grice's Pickle Works was just around the corner from our house. My Mam tells me that, as kids, they would take their empty jam jars to Grice's and would receive a ha'penny for each one. Grice's would then re-use the jars for their pickles. Now that's real recycling!To keep on topic, I found this picture on Leodis; the front of the Smyth's Arms can be seen at left, but Tainton's garment factory on Whitehall Road dominates the scene. Gelderd Road runs left to right across the foreground with the right side going towards town. The road entering from the far side of Gelderd Road is the bottom of Copley Hill. The direction signs points to Wortley. Leodis puts this scene in 1984, but it looks more like the mid/late 70s to me. I can't beleive that the area was still this scruffy by mid 80s! I walk through this scene most weekdays, so I'm going to get a snap from the same spot.

Tarkus wrote: Si wrote: Hi Tarkus,I don't remember the old road layout round there, unfortunately, but do you recall a pickle factory? I think it was on Pleasant Street? Cheers,Si. Hello SiYes, I do remember this. We lived on Pleasant View, which was the next street up from Pleasant Street. So, Grice's Pickle Works was just around the corner from our house. My Mam tells me that, as kids, they would take their empty jam jars to Grice's and would receive a ha'penny for each one. Grice's would then re-use the jars for their pickles. Now that's real recycling!To keep on topic, I found this picture on Leodis; the front of the Smyth's Arms can be seen at left, but Tainton's garment factory on Whitehall Road dominates the scene. Gelderd Road runs left to right across the foreground with the right side going towards town. The road entering from the far side of Gelderd Road is the bottom of Copley Hill. The direction signs points to Wortley. Leodis puts this scene in 1984, but it looks more like the mid/late 70s to me. I can't beleive that the area was still this scruffy by mid 80s! I walk through this scene most weekdays, so I'm going to get a snap from the same spot.

Cardiarms wrote: Does this help?http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... PLAY=FULLI find trying to make sense out of what was where around here quite difficult. That map would *definitely* help if it were a bit bigger or of higher resolution. It has street names and even traffic direction arrows; perfect, if only I could read it! Unfortunately, it doesn't enlarge very well so I may get in touch with Leodis to ask if they have access to the original map - it looks like an OS map to me. Thanks for the link!

Hope this is clearer. It's Godfrey's 1906 OS map - hopefully! Oh dear, I can't get it to work. It just says "invalid file type, please select another." Mebbe Tasa could have a go? Sorry about that, Tarkus. I mentioned the pickle factory (Grice's,) because my grandad set up business as a cooper in their yard in 1945.    

What was your granddad's surname Si? My Mam's family lived in that area for generations; she might recognise his name.If you have a scan of your map, you could email it to me ([email protected]). Thanks.To keep on topic, here's a picture of the area where The Smyths Arms used to be. I couldn't get far enough back from the road, so the perpective is a bit off, but you can clearly see the line of Copley Hill running into Gelderd Road. The site of The Smyths Arms is now 'Enterprise' car hire.