Cockersdale watercourses and mills

Si · Post by Si » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 10:18 am

grumpytramp wrote: Quote: It is the consequence of a phenomenon known as acid mine drainage (AMD) and is affect can be devastating of the freshwater environment. In the simplest terms as mines extended below the water table they pumped water out of the mine to allow the mining operation to continue unimpeded. This has an important impact in coal mines as one of the minerals that is routinely uncovered is iron pyrites in coal, shales and fireclay.Now in contact with the air it will begin to oxidise, as this reaction continues it generates heat and further accelerates the reaction (leading to the ultimate consequence if there is sufficient oxygen, heat and coal in spontaneous combustion). In oxidising the Iron Pyrites is converted to Iron (Fe2) Sulphate which is solvent in water. When the mines are abandoned and the water table rebounds to its natural level, that water dissolves the Iron Sulphide in the first instance Iron (Fe2) Sulphate and then Iron (Fe3) Sulphate. The reaction from Sulphide to Sulphate makes the water become acidic.It is when the water rebounds and there is a drainage route to the surface such as sough, tunnel, shaft etc and the water finds itself at the surface the real problems begin.Acidic water emerges at the surface with consequential damage on the freshwater habitat, then as it becomes more dilute downstream, the pH increases and the water is in contact with oxygen the previously soluble Iron (Fe3) Sulphate oxidises again and forms a precipitate of Iron Hydroxide. That is the horrible orange gunge.The process can occur naturally too and there a host of micro-organisms and bugs that thrive in that environment and will act as catalyst themselves.It is a serious problem in a lot of areas (and it is not just a legacy of coal and iron mining – the problem is in some respect worse in metal mines as a lot of other complex chemical reactions can occur creating complex and serious pollution problems.Orange gunge ends up carpeting the floors of watercourses killing most conventional aquatic life. ...And my mother was told it's good for you!Jim and Tilly - if you make it down there today - don't drink the water!!!

jim · Post by **jim** » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 10:30 am

I was told the same thing too, (but not by my mother) and I'm still heeeeee......................

Post by **chameleon** » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 11:12 am

Si wrote: grumpytramp wrote: Quote: It is the consequence of a phenomenon known as acid mine drainage (AMD) and is affect can be devastating of the freshwater environment. In the simplest terms as mines extended below the water table they pumped water out of the mine to allow the mining operation to continue unimpeded. This has an important impact in coal mines as one of the minerals that is routinely uncovered is iron pyrites in coal, shales and fireclay.Now in contact with the air it will begin to oxidise, as this reaction continues it generates heat and further accelerates the reaction (leading to the ultimate consequence if there is sufficient oxygen, heat and coal in spontaneous combustion). In oxidising the Iron Pyrites is converted to Iron (Fe2) Sulphate which is solvent in water. When the mines are abandoned and the water table rebounds to its natural level, that water dissolves the Iron Sulphide in the first instance Iron (Fe2) Sulphate and then Iron (Fe3) Sulphate. The reaction from Sulphide to Sulphate makes the water become acidic.It is when the water rebounds and there is a drainage route to the surface such as sough, tunnel, shaft etc and the water finds itself at the surface the real problems begin.Acidic water emerges at the surface with consequential damage on the freshwater habitat, then as it becomes more dilute downstream, the pH increases and the water is in contact with oxygen the previously soluble Iron (Fe3) Sulphate oxidises again and forms a precipitate of Iron Hydroxide. That is the horrible orange gunge.The process can occur naturally too and there a host of micro-organisms and bugs that thrive in that environment and will act as catalyst themselves.It is a serious problem in a lot of areas (and it is not just a legacy of coal and iron mining – the problem is in some respect worse in metal mines as a lot of other complex chemical reactions can occur creating complex and serious pollution problems.Orange gunge ends up carpeting the floors of watercourses killing most conventional aquatic life. ...And my mother was told it's good for you!Jim and Tilly - if you make it down there today - don't drink the water!!! That's the one, well done Si

grumpytramp · Post by **grumpytramp** » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 11:53 am

Si wrote: Steve - as well as a couple more air shafts, one word on your map which isn't on mine stands out - "Mine." Judging by the age of the OS map, I am certain that would have been Leeds Fireclay Company's Tong Lane mine which operated between 1928 and 1960, probably working latterly the Better Bed.

Si · Post by Si » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 11:58 am

chameleon wrote: Si wrote: grumpytramp wrote: Quote: It is the consequence of a phenomenon known as acid mine drainage (AMD) and is affect can be devastating of the freshwater environment. In the simplest terms as mines extended below the water table they pumped water out of the mine to allow the mining operation to continue unimpeded. This has an important impact in coal mines as one of the minerals that is routinely uncovered is iron pyrites in coal, shales and fireclay.Now in contact with the air it will begin to oxidise, as this reaction continues it generates heat and further accelerates the reaction (leading to the ultimate consequence if there is sufficient oxygen, heat and coal in spontaneous combustion). In oxidising the Iron Pyrites is converted to Iron (Fe2) Sulphate which is solvent in water. When the mines are abandoned and the water table rebounds to its natural level, that water dissolves the Iron Sulphide in the first instance Iron (Fe2) Sulphate and then Iron (Fe3) Sulphate. The reaction from Sulphide to Sulphate makes the water become acidic.It is when the water rebounds and there is a drainage route to the surface such as sough, tunnel, shaft etc and the water finds itself at the surface the real problems begin.Acidic water emerges at the surface with consequential damage on the freshwater habitat, then as it becomes more dilute downstream, the pH increases and the water is in contact with oxygen the previously soluble Iron (Fe3) Sulphate oxidises again and forms a precipitate of Iron Hydroxide. That is the horrible orange gunge.The process can occur naturally too and there a host of micro-organisms and bugs that thrive in that environment and will act as catalyst themselves.It is a serious problem in a lot of areas (and it is not just a legacy of coal and iron mining – the problem is in some respect worse in metal mines as a lot of other complex chemical reactions can occur creating complex and serious pollution problems.Orange gunge ends up carpeting the floors of watercourses killing most conventional aquatic life. ...And my mother was told it's good for you!Jim and Tilly - if you make it down there today - don't drink the water!!! That's the one, well done Si It was Grumpytramp that found it, not me!

Post by **chameleon** » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 12:32 pm

grumpytramp wrote: Si wrote: Steve - as well as a couple more air shafts, one word on your map which isn't on mine stands out - "Mine." Judging by the age of the OS map, I am certain that would have been Leeds Fireclay Company's Tong Lane mine which operated between 1928 and 1960, probably working latterly the Better Bed. Ever thought of just writing a book and publishing it here Grumpy??Si at least take credit for finding the post!

Si · Post by Si » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 2:30 pm

chameleon wrote: grumpytramp wrote: Si wrote: Steve - as well as a couple more air shafts, one word on your map which isn't on mine stands out - "Mine." Judging by the age of the OS map, I am certain that would have been Leeds Fireclay Company's Tong Lane mine which operated between 1928 and 1960, probably working latterly the Better Bed. Ever thought of just writing a book and publishing it here Grumpy??Si at least take credit for quoting it! I can't! Grumpytramp quoted it first!!!

Post by **chameleon** » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 2:44 pm

Si wrote: chameleon wrote: grumpytramp wrote: Si wrote: Steve - as well as a couple more air shafts, one word on your map which isn't on mine stands out - "Mine." Judging by the age of the OS map, I am certain that would have been Leeds Fireclay Company's Tong Lane mine which operated between 1928 and 1960, probably working latterly the Better Bed. Ever thought of just writing a book and publishing it here Grumpy??Si at least take credit for quoting it! I can't! Grumpytramp quoted it first!!! Well it was his post - my patience didn't let me search for it for long I'm afraid, and I new where it should be!

Si · Post by Si » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 3:53 pm

tilly wrote: jim wrote: Hi Tilly,thanks for the offer.How about Tuesday 10.00 at the Tong Road/Amberley Road junction.If you're up for it,look out for a bloke with glasses,binoculars,and wellies in a plastic bag!If that's OK let me know here,or suggest a more suitable date. Thats fine by me look out for a black Corsa with an old bloke in it i was warned about meeting strange men on the internet. lol Jim and Tillydowner - did you visit Cockersdale today? How did it go?

jim · Post by **jim** » Tue 23 Mar, 2010 4:35 pm

Hi SiWe did indeed, and had a highly enjoyable and informative half-day out. I'm now looking at maps and fact-sifting for a proper report. We did have one total failure though. Despite managing to sink threequarter-welly-deep in iron ochre mud, I managed to arrive home with both on my feet and intact!Little lads rule OK!