The Shrogs

leedslad_ · Post by **leedslad_** » Wed 11 May, 2011 8:01 pm

On the Temple Newsam estate is an area called The Shrogs.Even the council do not appear to know why the area is called The Shrogs - wondered if there are any rumours/titbits amongst forum members?http://www.leeds.gov.uk/templenewsam/wo ... _wood.html

jim · Post by **jim** » Wed 11 May, 2011 9:02 pm

A quick google brings up a couple of references giving "bush" or "shrub" for "shrog" Leedslad. I can't vouch for the accuracy of these.Interestingly there appears to be another similarly named area in the Rotherham vicinity.

Si · Post by Si » Fri 13 May, 2011 10:51 am

Isn't there a Shroggs Road in Halifax?

simong · Post by **simong** » Sun 15 May, 2011 1:09 am

Si wrote: Isn't there a Shroggs Road in Halifax? There is, went up it today. There's also a Shrogs Vue Terrace.

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sun 15 May, 2011 9:54 am

simong wrote: Si wrote: Isn't there a Shroggs Road in Halifax? There is, went up it today. There's also a Shrogs Vue Terrace. There is a Shroggs Farm in 'fax too.

Linky Oik · Post by **Linky Oik** » Sun 26 Feb, 2012 7:38 pm

jim wrote: A quick google brings up a couple of references giving "bush" or "shrub" for "shrog" Leedslad. I can't vouch for the accuracy of these. Well. I've just spent the last hour idling the time away looking for origin of the word "shrog" and turned-up some information.The "Forests and Chases in England and Wales, 1000 to 1850" determines that there are several locations named using the terms scrog or shrog; the name being used where an area was "of rough brushwood or underwood".The "Middle English Dictionary" notes: "shrogges - plural of scrogge. Related to shrinken".Other middle english sources state that the word appears in (english) usage around 1350–1400; and arises from "skrogg" noting that this word is probably akin to scrag (related to scrag-end, lean, scrawny).And from elsewhere: "overgrown with bushes," mid-15c., from scrog (n.) "a stunted bush, a shrub-like plant" (c.1400), probably related to scrag "a lean person or thing" (1570s).Indeed, Professor Garrett Epp (Alberta University) in his book on middle english drama, notes a play that "...directs the reader to other works that explain “shrogs” – bushes or underwood" and "... that is, shelter, which shrogs (or scrogs) provide for the sheep, and a very obvious place for any shepherd to search".Interestingly, "A Dictionary of Archaic and Provincial Words, Obsolete Phrases, Proverbs by James Orchard Halliwell-Phillipps (1850)" describes "Scrog. A stunted bush. North. Scraggy, abounding in underwood. Scroggy. Twisted; stunted."Following the lead from shrog to scrog then, it appears that shrog is the northern english dialect equivalent of the scots-gaelic word scrog.Webster's Dictionary 1913 (via Encyclo Online Encyclopaedia) states:"Scrog noun [ Confer Scrag , or Gael. sgrogag anything shriveled, from sgrog to compress, shrivel.] A stunted shrub, bush, or branch. [ Prov. Eng. & Scot.]"Similarly, MacBain's Dictionary states:"sgrog , sgrogag - anything shrivelled, a shrivelled old woman, old cow or ewe, sgrog, shrivel; from the Scottish scrog, a stunted bush, sgroggy, stunted, English scraggy, Danish skrog, Swed. skrokk, anything shrunken, Norse skrokkr."Other sources refer specifically to short or stunted bushy growths, particularly of crab apple or blackthorn brushwood.Finally, and most impressive of all, the Dictionary of the Scots Language at:http://www.dsl.ac.uk/- has many entries for scrog. Those with sufficient interest may like to visit the website and search for the word; there is an astonishing amount of detail and many usage references are presented. Interestingly, one of the entries describes shrog as being of southern english: "scrogg, brushwood, skroggy, adj., 1513, Mid.Eng. skrogg, brushwood, of doubtful etym. The form appears to be a Northern equivalent of the Southern Eng. shrog with sim. meanings, and may be of Scand. orig., cogn. with scrag, something lean, bony or gnarled, Swed. dial. skragg, something haggard, old or torn, Norw. dial. skragg, a shrivelled miserable creature, a lean horse, but the phonology is uncertain. Cf. Scrag, Eng. dial. shrag. Prob. the same word appears as a place-name Skrogges in Peebles shire, 1296".So next time you walk through that anonymous bit of woodland in Temple Newsam, remember you tread in the footsteps of some medieval peasant farmer who may have harvested brushwood, or sheltered his sheep there.I do wonder how long the area has been known as The Shrogs.