Coal seam names - and Stigmaria?

[Leeds Hippo]

One interesting feature of one of the older maps on the Old maps site is that it names the main coal seams under Leeds such asBlack BedBeeston BedBetter BedI've searched but can't find a modern picture of the geology of Leeds showing these seams - their depths and extent (probably because it is valuable information). What intrigues me are the lines on the map showing where the seams reach the surface. As a kid I don't ever recall seeing a 4 foot seam of coal in the case of the Black Bed in Wortley unless all the surface coal was long removed - I would have expected railway embankments to expose these seams.One intriguing expression I have never heard before is mention on the mine in the bottom left of the map "Coal, clay, sandstone and Stigmaria" Google tells us that Stigmaria is an fossil of an ancient tree with diamond shaped bark - again I don't ever recall seeing this.

[chameleon]

The detail you want is on the Geological Mps and I have a couple of this area. When purchased from the IGS ( when they had a lab and base in Crossgates) they were supplied as photocopies from an original and I'm afraid the quality doesn't lend it's self to scanning or I would put a section or two up for you.Our good friend GRUMPY TRAMP will doubtless give us a naritive to explain the detail - but where is the old boy - conspicuous by your absence grumpy.....

[The Parksider]

Leeds Hippo wrote: One interesting feature of one of the older maps on the Old maps site is that it names the main coal seams under Leeds such asBlack BedBeeston BedBetter BedI've searched but can't find a modern picture of the geology of Leeds showing these seams - their depths and extent (probably because it is valuable information). What intrigues me are the lines on the map showing where the seams reach the surface. As a kid I don't ever recall seeing a 4 foot seam of coal in the case of the Black Bed in Wortley unless all the surface coal was long removed - I would have expected railway embankments to expose these seams.One intriguing expression I have never heard before is mention on the mine in the bottom left of the map "Coal, clay, sandstone and Stigmaria" Google tells us that Stigmaria is an fossil of an ancient tree with diamond shaped bark - again I don't ever recall seeing this. Yes Grumpytramp will reveal all.As for seams "outcropping" they do do that as do mineral veins.I suppose a lot of outcrops have been worked as it's obviously easily won coal and so you don't see them anymore, just as earth and turf cover may hide them.I once delighted in seeing a lead vein sparkling on the surface somewhere near Tan Hill. One day I'll see if I can find it again.the other week I went to the Sturton Colliery site where there are traces of bell pits in a field, alongside the field is a deep cutting for the Leeds/Selby railway and I was certain I'd see a coal outcrop there - albeit exposed by man.I could not see anything, but also can't discount the idea that the civil engineers may have extracted the easy to get to seam.Hey Chameleon - didn't you one recound the story of digging down in your garden and hitting some coal?? I may be well wrong??Also check out Grumpytramps pictures of the Jack Lane clay pit where he points out the coal seam that has been hit as the pit chased down for fireclay.

[The Parksider]

Leeds Hippo wrote: What intrigues me are the lines on the map showing where the seams reach the surface. As a kid I don't ever recall seeing a 4 foot seam of coal in the case of the Black Bed in Wortley unless all the surface coal was long removed - I would have expected railway embankments to expose these seams.One intriguing expression I have never heard before is mention on the mine in the bottom left of the map "Coal, clay, sandstone and Stigmaria" Google tells us that Stigmaria is an fossil of an ancient tree with diamond shaped bark - again I don't ever recall seeing this. I also think (GT to put me right) that the surface of the strata may not only be covered by earth and turf, but a smearing of several inches if not feet of clay or sub soil in this region.It's a long way down the the actual surface of the strata (as opposed to the actual surface we stand on)I also came across the word "calliard" as regards stone extraction and GT was kind enough (although some supposed quality dictionaries werent) to explain this as a fine grained tight knit form of sandstone.That's it - were going on a secret leeds dig surely?????

[BJF]

Stigmaria. Would that be the wife of the Stig!

[Trojan]

The Parksider wrote: Leeds Hippo wrote: What intrigues me are the lines on the map showing where the seams reach the surface. As a kid I don't ever recall seeing a 4 foot seam of coal in the case of the Black Bed in Wortley unless all the surface coal was long removed - I would have expected railway embankments to expose these seams.One intriguing expression I have never heard before is mention on the mine in the bottom left of the map "Coal, clay, sandstone and Stigmaria" Google tells us that Stigmaria is an fossil of an ancient tree with diamond shaped bark - again I don't ever recall seeing this. I also think (GT to put me right) that the surface of the strata may not only be covered by earth and turf, but a smearing of several inches if not feet of clay or sub soil in this region.It's a long way down the the actual surface of the strata (as opposed to the actual surface we stand on)I also came across the word "calliard" as regards stone extraction and GT was kind enough (although some supposed quality dictionaries werent) to explain this as a fine grained tight knit form of sandstone.That's it - were going on a secret leeds dig surely????? I used to work at Levertons on Gelderd Road, Gildersome the site was excavated and behind the workshops you could see the coal seam and get it out with your hand. The area across the road was open casted in the nineties.The Haig Moor seam which was deep mined at South Kirkby outcropped near Haig Moor Road in West Ardsley. This area was open casted in the sixties (Tufty Farm between Gawthorpe and West Ardsley) and in the late eighties early nineties, just off Woodhouse Lane (between West Ardsley, East Ardsley and Kirkhamgate)

[grumpytramp]

Hi kids ......... sorry in Grumpytramp's world this is normally a time of the year reserved for wild trout fishing in the wee burns, rivers and lochs and waiting in anticipation for a wee dash of rain to encourage the Salmon to come up the local river!Still nights are drawing in!OK where to begin? Quote: One intriguing expression I have never heard before is mention on the mine in the bottom left of the map "Coal, clay, sandstone and Stigmaria" Google tells us that Stigmaria is an fossil of an ancient tree with diamond shaped bark - again I don't ever recall seeing this. You are absolutely correct it. It is essentially a root of simple carboniferous tree found in the coal forest environment that prevailed at the time. If you root (pardon the pun) in the seat earths (the clays below coal seams) it is not unusual to find fossils of belonging to this type (known when I was at college as Lycopodiales)See http://www.soes.soton.ac.uk/resources/c ... ia.htmSuch fossils are commonly found in the measures between the Better Bed & Beeston Coals along with Pteridosperms/Filicales (ferns!) and Calamites (the ancient relative of the modern weed Horsetails) Quote: I've searched but can't find a modern picture of the geology of Leeds showing these seams - their depths and extent (probably because it is valuable information). What intrigues me are the lines on the map showing where the seams reach the surface. There is actually a remarkable amount, nay, vast quantity of coal geology related information about Leeds. Unfortunately not easily available; the modern equivalent of the 1:10,560 OS first series is published by the British Geological Survey which probably distils 150 years of geological mapping, 250+ years of coal mining and a century of geotechnical investigation. A single solid geology sheet (showing the main faults, coal outcrops, useful boreholes, shafts etc) will set you back £80.00. There may be copies with Leeds University Library to examine.Once upon a time the BGS (IGS and before that the Geological Survey of GB) published area Memoirs describing in detail the local geology and particular the mining geology which are a valuable source of information. The modern versions of these memoirs are more science and geo-environmentally focussed and are of little use to anyone interested in mining archaeology. In respect to this area the most useful document is probably the Geological Survey of GB's "The Geology of the Country around Wakefield" published in 1940 (try the local library or Leeds Uni) Quote: As a kid I don't ever recall seeing a 4 foot seam of coal in the case of the Black Bed in Wortley unless all the surface coal was long removed - I would have expected railway embankments to expose these seams. A few things to bear in mind here. The Better Bed, Black Band and the Beeston Coals would have been extensively worked (Better Bed for the high quality metallurgical coal and superior fireclay floor, the Black Band for its overlaying ironstone as well as the coal and the Beeston for its thickness of high quality steam/house/industrial coal). The Black Band seam is definitely exposed in the cutting at Wortley Station (the complete line on a geological plan shows that the outcrop has been mapped either in cutting or from mine plans where as the dotted line indicates a conjectural outcrop as shown to the east). A coal shown as an outcrop indicates its position at the rockhead; the area may be covered in glacial drift or as is almost certainly the case in Wortley in Made Ground (tipped material ........ tipped materials from collieries, clay works, boilers, industrial waste, domestic waste, demolition waste, construction wastes etc etc) . Another significant factor is that coals will oxidise in contact with air and form a dull lustre almost indistinguishable from black shales ......... I am very confident (Network Rail interference excepted) if you cleared the vegetation, topsoil and surface layers in this cutting you would find the Black Band Coal!

[The Parksider]

grumpytramp wrote: A coal shown as an outcrop indicates its position at the rockhead; the area may be covered in glacial drift or as is almost certainly the case in Wortley in Made Ground (tipped material ........ tipped materials from collieries, clay works, boilers, industrial waste, domestic waste, demolition waste, construction wastes etc etc) . Another significant factor is that coals will oxidise in contact with air and form a dull lustre almost indistinguishable from black shales ......... I am very confident (Network Rail interference excepted) if you cleared the vegetation, topsoil and surface layers in this cutting you would find the Black Band Coal! In short you really have got to know what to look for and where to look for it.Looking for the Sturton seam I actually did dismiss some very light grey strata as shale.And I take the point entirely that where a seam outcrops all kinds of stuff could cover it, and if it's been worked it's likely to be a prime area for tipped material.Tipped material covering an outcrop may be unlikely today but as you GT stated, in times gone past a whole fireclat out could be filled with domestic and insustrial ashes pretty quickly.......Get your shovels out - were going into the belly of Leeds.......

[chameleon]

I'm sure this guy is telepathic! Something comes up and a mention of his name brings our old Grumpy steaming in from nowhere like the gene from a lightly rubbed lampI trie to replace the not too good copies of the IGS maps I have a while ago and was aghast s grumpy states, to find they go at around £80 a time now - rather different to the 37½ and 50p I originally shelled (shaled?) out some years ago    

[rikj]

There are some fine stigmaria in Bradford parks. Seems to have been a bit of a craze for digging them out of sandstone quarries and making them into features in public parks. Geograph has a photo of one in Lister Park, but I think there were others in Bowling and Peel Parks.If I can re-activate the part of my brain that knows how to upload photos, I'll put one up of a heading in a coal mine that has gone straight through the trunk of a fossil tree. Leaving a roughly circular hole in the ceiling.As has been said, coal seams are often exposed by civil engineering works. There should be a good seam exposed where Barwick Road goes under the railway as it leaves Garforth. 1st Brown Metal or Firthfield seam. Obvious enough for the map maker to put "coal seen".Now of course it may be hidden behind the abutments, or covered in sub-soil.The next seam, Flockton or Middleton High Main was proved to the west of Garforth and again to the east in the railway cuttings. Therefore it could be inferred that the seam outcropped through Garforth. Where seen east of the junction it was 1ft 4in so hardly worth working.