SecretLeeds - History, culture and architecture in Leeds

Jim.................................................40 odd years on the railway and I have NEVER heard of Three Signal Bridge Junction.Do you have any maps/photos of it please ?

Hi Dogduke. As a computer numpty ( ask Si! ) I am unable to upload maps/pics, but can describe the site. It was on the viaduct outside Leeds Central Station at the point where the original L&NWR lines, the Bradford via Stanningley lines, the GNR line from Wakefield, and the Leeds Northern, later NER curve up from Gelderd Junction all met. Just east of these junctions the tracks to the L&NWR/L&Y high level goods shed also diverged, as shown in the classic 1868 engraving of the site which shows the old wagon hoists.I believe that the title of Three Signal Bridge Junction was on the original Acts of Parliament for the construction of these lines, and ,of course, it was the official name of the signal box controlling the area. Hope this adequately explains the position.    

A little more info on Three Signal Bridge Junction. The Godfrey 1906 OS Map ( Holbeck and New Wortley Sheet 218.05 ) identifies the signal box as "Holbeck Junction". It was situated to the North side of the Central Station approach viaduct midway between the river and the canal.For the official pre-grouping Railway Clearing House ( probably 1912 ) map, "Leeds Termini" by Pixton and Hooper -readily available second hand on the internet for a fiver - is useful. The junction is identified as "Three Signal Bridge Junction", followed by "B Box" in brackets. The book I refer to has a number of great aerial views intermingled with a larger number of 1950s/60s photos, with a smaller quantity of earlier pics. There is also a great 1890 land plan of both City and Central Stations. For study of the pre-1970 City Centre stations it's a must-have book.As an interesting aside it is apparent from the Godfrey map and the aerial views that when the Central Station approach Viaduct was built, the "straight" route into the station was that of the L&NWR, not, as one would expect, that of the GNR. Later track alterations including a variety of crossovers and dogleg curves have somewhat obscured this, but study of the overhead views ( and for that matter the Godfrey map ) confirm it. The L&NWR used the terminus as its Leeds passenger station for a whole two years, from September 1848 to September 1850!     

Phill_dvsn wrote: If your interested in unfitted waggons, and goods trains of yesteryear Dogduke, then my mate Arnie a.k.a 'The Deadmans Handle' has a rather nice set of brake van shots, and stories from his time at Guide Bridge in the 70's and 80's herehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/deadmans_handle/s ... 14/detail/    The set includes T30 the supposed 'armoured brake van'for it's local trips around the notorious snipers alley around South Manchester lol      Thanks for that link phil.Some interesting pics on there mate.That 'armoured brake van' proper reminds me of stuff you used tosee in westerns lol.I can imagine a line of Indians riding up along-side of the thinggood stuff lad,good stuff.

Brandy wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: If your interested in unfitted waggons, and goods trains of yesteryear Dogduke, then my mate Arnie a.k.a 'The Deadmans Handle' has a rather nice set of brake van shots, and stories from his time at Guide Bridge in the 70's and 80's herehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/deadmans_handle/s ... 14/detail/    The set includes T30 the supposed 'armoured brake van'for it's local trips around the notorious snipers alley around South Manchester lol      Thanks for that link phil.Some interesting pics on there mate.That 'armoured brake van' proper reminds me of stuff you used tosee in westerns lol.I can imagine a line of Indians riding up along-side of the thinggood stuff lad,good stuff. That made me . Geronimo was always a good shout as a kid.     

jim wrote: A little more info on Three Signal Bridge Junction. The Godfrey 1906 OS Map ( Holbeck and New Wortley Sheet 218.05 ) identifies the signal box as "Holbeck Junction". It was situated to the North side of the Central Station approach viaduct midway between the river and the canal.For the official pre-grouping Railway Clearing House ( probably 1912 ) map, "Leeds Termini" by Pixton and Hooper -readily available second hand on the internet for a fiver - is useful. The junction is identified as "Three Signal Bridge Junction", followed by "B Box" in brackets. The book I refer to has a number of great aerial views intermingled with a larger number of 1950s/60s photos, with a smaller quantity of earlier pics. There is also a great 1890 land plan of both City and Central Stations. For study of the pre-1970 City Centre stations it's a must-have book.As an interesting aside it is apparent from the Godfrey map and the aerial views that when the Central Station approach Viaduct was built, the "straight" route into the station was that of the L&NWR, not, as one would expect, that of the GNR. Later track alterations including a variety of crossovers and dogleg curves have somewhat obscured this, but study of the overhead views ( and for that matter the Godfrey map ) confirm it. The L&NWR used the terminus as its Leeds passenger station for a whole two years, from September 1848 to September 1850!      Thanks for that Jim.It looks like Leeds Central B Box.A Box controlled the stn and worked to B Box.Wikipeida has a brief entry on Leeds central and includes a Railway Clearing House map of 1915 which shows the same info.Its strange that I had never heard of the old name but until reading the Leeds Termini I had not heard of Canal Jn nr the Leeds stn either.I meet monthly with railwaymen older than me(YES) some of who worked at Central so I will raise the subject.Thanks

Hi Dogduke. It is possible ( but this is only supposition ) that the name arose due to the fact that in 1848 when these lines and junctions were built, railway signalling was in its infancy. A multiple junction on a viaduct would require an overhead gantry with more than one signal, a novelty at the time, hence the name perhaps.    

In another new publication, Railways and Tramways in the City of Leeds, published by Silverlink, the author, Mr Alan J Haigh shows on page 97 a sketch of the wooden signal gantry which was known as Three Signal Bridge. The gantry was apparently in use from around 1855 to 1872 but that was long enough for the name to be associated with the nearby junction.As its name suggests the book has a lot of information about the railways and tramways in and around Leeds and in my opinion Mr Haigh would be a welcome contributor to several of the Transport Threads on SL

Why did trains running out of Leeds going to Scarborough via York always go slowly? When I was a kid in the early 50's we went to the East Coast quite a lot as my Dad worked on the Railway and would get " family priveledge tkts" so we ere able to go to Scarborough quite often. As we left Leeds City the train would always go quite slowly until it passed Micklefield and I think then, it speeded up to a normal running speed.When I commented on this to him he would say it was because of all the mineworkings in the area and the danger of subsidence. Do trains still run slowly over this stretch,and was Dads explanation correct?

stutterdog wrote: Why did trains running out of Leeds going to Scarborough via York always go slowly? When I was a kid in the early 50's we went to the East Coast quite a lot as my Dad worked on the Railway and would get " family priveledge tkts" so we ere able to go to Scarborough quite often. As we left Leeds City the train would always go quite slowly until it passed Micklefield and I think then, it speeded up to a normal running speed.When I commented on this to him he would say it was because of all the mineworkings in the area and the danger of subsidence. Do trains still run slowly over this stretch,and was Dads explanation correct? I doubt your dads theory about mine workings been the reason for slow trains been correct. Certainly those same mines still exist today    (without any major works to stabalise them) It's quite an uphill slog leaving Leeds up Marsh lane cutting, and i do believe there is a fair bank up to Micklefield as well.