Coronation Scot

blackprince · Post by **blackprince** » Sun 18 Sep, 2011 5:43 pm

I can remember being taken as a small child in 1953 to see a special train arrive at Leeds Central station as part of the coronation celebrations.I am pretty certain it was Coronation Scot. Whether that was the name of the train or the locomotive I am not sure. I do recollect the loco had a streamlined casing and I think the livery was either grey or blue.Anyone have similar recollections or any railway buffs have any more information about this visit?

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 12:09 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Coronation_Class

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 1:12 pm

I'm a bit puzzled here. Chrism's link shows correctly a "Coronation" class steamlined pacific locomotives which type was built to haul the "Coronation Scot" service of the LMS between London and Glasgow via Crewe, and named for the coronation of George VI in the 1930s.By 1953, however, that titled train no longer ran, and the "Coronation" class engines had all been de-streamlined by the end of 1949, so that it would have been impossible to see either. So what did blackprince witness? I would think it more likely that it would have been an A4 steamlined locomotive which had once hauled the LNER's "Coronation" service, again a pre-war train (or less likely the sole W1 streamlined 4-6-4 engine) and that the adult who identified it for him was not railway enthusiast and conflated the two. Anyone got a better suggestion?

Chrism · Post by **Chrism** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 2:33 pm

Wikipedia has been known to make quite a few errors.

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 3:48 pm

Hi Chrism. My statements on the "Coronation Scot" and "Coronation" titled trains and on the destreamlining of the "Princess Coronation" (usually known as the "Duchess") class locomotives come not from Wikipedia but from a fairly extensive library of technical and reference books on railway subjects. As far as I can see the Wikipedia page you posted is accurate in every respectI think it reasonable to claim that the reference books can't all be wrong - excepting of course by those who still believe that there is a secret stash of serviceable steam locos in vast caverns underground connected to Box Tunnel. (joke!)

Cardiarms · Post by **Cardiarms** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 6:00 pm

In 1953 would it have been green?

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 6:39 pm

Cardiarms wrote: In 1953 would it have been green? A4's were generally painted green under BR, but also appeared in several other colours (they had been blue under LNER) following nationalisation. I'm certain that I've seen photos of a silver one (q. Silver Fox?)I'd think that a streamlined loco, in Leeds, in 1953 would almost certainly have been an A4 (same class as the Mallard / Sir Nigel Gresley) - one of the finest and most evocative classes of steam engines ever built.As always there is the possibility that it was a special one off working for any number of reasons.http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2 ... 7.jpgClick the link for a pic of A4 Union of South Africa 60009, hauling "The Coronation" leaving York - does that ring any bells? Edited to add this, found on the Wiki page about Bittern (another A4) listing various colour schemes:"Like the other members of her class, Bittern has worn many liveries throughout her career. When released to traffic on 18 December 1937, Bittern was wearing the garter blue livery that was standard for LNER A4 Pacific locomotives at that time. 14 November 1941 saw her repainted into wartime black with LNER markings on the tender. 22 May 1943 saw the modification to the tender with just the markings NE - to confuse wartime spies. Bittern remained in black until 7 March 1947 when she served out the last few months of the "Big Four" in LNER post-war garter blue with extra red/white lining. Bittern was repainted next on 28 July 1950 into British Railways dark blue with black and white lining. The final repaint for Bittern was into British Railways brunswick green on 12 February 1952."

blackprince · Post by **blackprince** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 9:22 pm

Many thanks for the interesting and knowledgeable replies so far.The special train I remember must have been a newsworthy and well publicised event at the time because the whole family went to see it arrive and they were definitely not train enthusiasts. There was also quite a crowd on the platform. Although the name “Coronation Scot” has stuck in my mind all these years I agree that another adult family member might have called it that by mistake. They were all old enough to remember the original pre-war train of that name. I also agree that a streamlined loco visiting Leeds was far more likely to have been an Eastern Region A4. The livery I remember was definitely not BR Green. I wonder if BR painted a loco in a special livery for the coronation year - harking back to the 1937 coronation maybe?

jim · Post by **jim** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 11:05 pm

According to "Locomotives of the LNER part 2A" (RCTS) which covers the Pacific classes the last blue A4 was no. 60026 "Miles Beevor" which was repainted to BR green in January 1953. To the best of my knowledge no A4 would again be seen painted blue until the preservation period, commencing in 1963 with "Mallard".

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Mon 19 Sep, 2011 11:35 pm

The topic has made my wish I had kept my records of train numbers that I spotted (along with those of car numbers!) when I was a kid. Streakers (trains, not people!) were the most eagerly awaited sight, with blinkers the next.