noisy buses

trophy · Post by **trophy** » Thu 27 Aug, 2009 8:37 pm

is it just me or does anybody else think the vibration on the new first double deckers when they are ticking over is horrendous. i was in a traffic jam on one for twenty minutes and got of with a headache.

stevief · Post by **stevief** » Thu 27 Aug, 2009 10:55 pm

trophy wrote: is it just me or does anybody else think the vibration on the new first double deckers when they are ticking over is horrendous. i was in a traffic jam on one for twenty minutes and got of with a headache. I was in one of the new Arriva buses recently and the road noise was a distraction.I never noticed if it was adorned with the name of a Rugby League player from yesteryear...

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Thu 27 Aug, 2009 11:59 pm

I'll try to be be brief and concise here, as I could go on for hours very angrily about the standards of design and construction of most modern buses.I'm afraid that manufacturers and operators have totally "lost the plot." All that matters now is keeping the average age of fleets low so that they can blow their own trumpets loudly on this issue. The vehicles must be named (frivolous), route branded (an expensive farce which passes all passengers by), have their windows plastered with zany adverts which the public don't notice and would much prefer to see out, and the amount spent and wasted on ghastly "liveries" and coloured route "lines" and vynils is nothing short of facetiously criminal. At least when I bought printer inks for the first time I found out what "cyan" meant - I wonder how many passengers on the "cyan line" know or care ??Down now to the nitty gritty. It is a sad fact that most modern vehicles suffer from new with totally inadequate and uncomfortable suspension. This is not by any means confined to individual bad patches of road, but to virtually any but the very smoothest of surfaces. Standards of bodywork construction are unbelievably atrocious. I am not an engineer, but it is patently obvious that when brand new buses show signs of the entire floor moving, complete with seats, and the sides of the vehicles moving so badly that the windows can be seen flexing, that the structural methods and strengths are woefully inadequate. The "09" registered single deckers in Leeds, which by definition are a maximum of six months old, are already in a bad way - these are the ones with the improved offside emergency exit towards the middle of the bus - and some with two whole windows obliterated with advertisements.Similar criticisms apply to most of the new double deckers, which invariably display "solid" and ineffective rear suspension in particular. add to these glaring faults the extra discomfort of the "ergonomically" (but read "economically") designed seats which compare unfavourably with the average park bench and we arrive at a deplorable ride - but to the office bound folks who make the decisions all is well. After spending a good period of my early career in working on fine quality and durable vehicles I now have to ride, along with all other passengers, on some abominable heaps, but relax on your laurels Head Office - the image and the branding seem good - to yourselves and the hordes of wealthy "consultants" at least - so all is well.SAD and ANGRY, LEEDS 6

Riponian · Post by **Riponian** » Fri 28 Aug, 2009 8:47 am

Blakey, as a user of one the "branded" buses I can say that the ones First/Worst have seem to have gone for the cheapest options on the lot. You can hear them coming from a long way away (probably the noise of the radiator fans, why they haven't got electric ones evades me). I could only suggest using your own cushion.As for branding routes, I am sure they deliberately shuffle them about so you see X84 Skipton buses on the 56, but they have had some real sheds on such as the X98 - not conducive to getting the "Gin and Jag set" from the leafy suburbs to use the bus at all.I'm lucky, I come in on the 36, but if I catch the 40/40A up to work it's like going back 20 years. Bring back LCT and if there is a budding Sammy Ledgard somewhere please get on with it.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Fri 28 Aug, 2009 9:12 am

Thanks for your concurring views Riponian, and I know that many passengers feel the same. A sad feature of this situation is that the industry has this illogical fixation "the newer the better" whereas nowadays nothing could be further from the truth. At least most of the elderly vehicles now classed by many as "old bangers or heaps" did at least give many years of satisfactory service and comfortable riding. The wonderful Leyland/Volvo Olympian must be one of the most successful models of all time - many still in service everywhere and some reaching twenty five years old and still reliable. The once superb and famous Leyland Motors made the disastrous error of telling the customers "you'll have what we say you'll have and like it." After sinking to the depths with the abominable Leyland Lynx - slightly under 1,000 produced - they went out of business, and no wonder.One thing we must all be thankful for though - at least the various makers of fully automatic gearboxes have at last got their act together, and most modern transmissions behave reasonbly well. Some of the early units of this type, between say mid 1960s and late 1980s, were totally unacceptable. I've had some awfully embarrassing experiences while trying my utmost to give a really smooth ride, only to hear grumblings of "Oh what an awful driver."It would have been of little use trying to explain to passengers that the gearbox was failing to change when appropriate, smoothly or otherwise, and that many gears were being "missed" or engaged violently.Just to reinforce the point - I worked for Sammy Ledgards and admired the firm greatly for the virtually 100% reliable service we provided under all conditions. The unkind memories people have of "old boneshakers" are largely completely unfounded and the vehicles were very well maintained indeed, and even second hand ones were selected with uncanny success and almost always gave several years very good service - the Traffic Commissioners vehicle examiners were rightly very strict indeed, and didn't issue long Certifcates of Fitness unless they were warranted. Happy memories of good times, and NO rose tinted glasses I assure everyone.

Si · Post by Si » Fri 28 Aug, 2009 11:43 am

I agree with the previous posts. As is the way these days, the "authorities" find it easier (and cheaper) to appear to be doing something, rather than getting to the bottom of a problem and really fixing it. The marketing and public relations departments are called in, instead of real decision makers. It's called papering over the cracks.Cyan? Why not pale blue?Magenta? Why not pink?If they had a Black Line, would they call it the "Key Line?"

Terrym · Post by **Terrym** » Fri 28 Aug, 2009 12:00 pm

Hi all,I appreciate all the comments, but as a ex driver who still works on the buses please consider the driver who has to spend 10 hours a day behind the wheel of these things.We currently run the Plaxton Primo and these have to be the worst buses of all time.The modification lists for these buses is untrue.The squeaks from the suspension are totally over the top.But I suppose like everything nowadays they are built to a price.

Si · Post by Si » Fri 28 Aug, 2009 12:24 pm

Terrym wrote: Hi all,I appreciate all the comments, but as a ex driver who still works on the buses please consider the driver who has to spend 10 hours a day behind the wheel of these things.We currently run the Plaxton Primo and these have to be the worst buses of all time.The modification lists for these buses is untrue.The squeaks from the suspension are totally over the top.But I suppose like everything nowadays they are built to a price. Hi Terrym,I bow to your expert knowledge (I have never driven a bus!)Everything has always come at a price.However, "investment" is no longer considered in the price!

railnut · Post by **railnut** » Fri 28 Aug, 2009 2:00 pm

trophy wrote: is it just me or does anybody else think the vibration on the new first double deckers when they are ticking over is horrendous. i was in a traffic jam on one for twenty minutes and got of with a headache. Following on from this and all the subsequent points that have been made to which I entirely agree, why is it that first/worst drivers insist on driving all over the city in the lower gears. This over-rides the automatic qualities of the modern gearbox designed to give maximum desired torque to the circumstances apertaining at the time. The engine must be running for most of its time with the rev counter in the red area and the extra cost in fuel must be horendous. No wonder the fares are leaping above inflation.Will the new management gismos being fitted cut this out.May-be allied to this, I've noticed in the past couple of weeks that engines are being switched off [or automatically shut down?] when standing time at the Otley bus station.

Riponian · Post by **Riponian** » Fri 28 Aug, 2009 2:38 pm

railnut - the new Volvos will cut out if they are left idling for more than five minutes, usually the average length of a ciggy break it seems.All this wonderful colour branding just covers up the fact that First/Worst are failing to attract passengers, possibly the lack of any active competition on most routes. You will notice that the one thing that attracts new buses onto a route is the presence of another operator such as Arriva (West Riding / YWD) or H&D/K&D. I think the reason for the recent cuts was that they couldn't get the Dennis/Alex rattleboxes through the MoT and were short of working vehicles.Quite frankly I'm not that bothered with the age of the bus but so long as I don't need to visit a chiropractor after my journey!