A New High Quality Transport System for Leeds

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 24 Aug, 2009 3:43 pm

Trojan wrote: I was on site at Ayres Road (near Old Trafford cricket ground) Manchester yesterday. They're having another MetroLink line, this time it will run from Rochdale, through Oldham, to the city centre and then on to Didsbury. The section on Ayres Road is on redundant track bed closed by Beeching. They've already go two lines, Bury to Altrincham and Picadilly to Eccles. What has Manchester got that Leeds hasn't? People who make a noise.

simong · Post by **simong** » Tue 25 Aug, 2009 3:06 pm

Trojan wrote: I was on site at Ayres Road (near Old Trafford cricket ground) Manchester yesterday. They're having another MetroLink line, this time it will run from Rochdale, through Oldham, to the city centre and then on to Didsbury. The section on Ayres Road is on redundant track bed closed by Beeching. They've already go two lines, Bury to Altrincham and Picadilly to Eccles. What has Manchester got that Leeds hasn't? A metropolitan area that's made up of seven councils rather than our one, for one, plus a lot of existing infrastructure that Leeds doesn't have. It seems to me that the relationship between the boroughs of Greater Manchester is a lot stronger than those of West Yorkshire, which is why our area isn't known as Greater Leeds. The result in Manchester is a lot more negotiation for issues that affect the wider area, including the congestion charge, which has been used as something of a stick before applying a carrot but in using that approach has been resisted by those boroughs that don't directly benefit from it.Manchester's rail system is a lot more intensive than West Yorkshire's as well, and the original Metrolink lines were mostly derived from existing rail lines, particularly Victoria-Bury and Piccadilly-Altrincham, with the other bits being filled in as new infrastructure such as Salford Quays was built, although it's really only the section through that Quays and the road-running area through Manchester city centre that involved major capital expenditure and some considerable disruption - indeed, the Piccadilly - Altrincham line was shut for 18 months while the conversion from rail to tram took place.The idea of a Greater Leeds would solve quite a few of these issues, such as having an outer ring road which didn't have to remain within the city boundaries, but as with Manchester, it would create as many problems.

Trojan · Post by **Trojan** » Tue 25 Aug, 2009 10:25 pm

simong wrote: Trojan wrote: I was on site at Ayres Road (near Old Trafford cricket ground) Manchester yesterday. They're having another MetroLink line, this time it will run from Rochdale, through Oldham, to the city centre and then on to Didsbury. The section on Ayres Road is on redundant track bed closed by Beeching. They've already go two lines, Bury to Altrincham and Picadilly to Eccles. What has Manchester got that Leeds hasn't? A metropolitan area that's made up of seven councils rather than our one, for one, plus a lot of existing infrastructure that Leeds doesn't have. It seems to me that the relationship between the boroughs of Greater Manchester is a lot stronger than those of West Yorkshire, which is why our area isn't known as Greater Leeds. The result in Manchester is a lot more negotiation for issues that affect the wider area, including the congestion charge, which has been used as something of a stick before applying a carrot but in using that approach has been resisted by those boroughs that don't directly benefit from it.Manchester's rail system is a lot more intensive than West Yorkshire's as well, and the original Metrolink lines were mostly derived from existing rail lines, particularly Victoria-Bury and Piccadilly-Altrincham, with the other bits being filled in as new infrastructure such as Salford Quays was built, although it's really only the section through that Quays and the road-running area through Manchester city centre that involved major capital expenditure and some considerable disruption - indeed, the Piccadilly - Altrincham line was shut for 18 months while the conversion from rail to tram took place.The idea of a Greater Leeds would solve quite a few of these issues, such as having an outer ring road which didn't have to remain within the city boundaries, but as with Manchester, it would create as many problems. The trouble as regards West Yorkshire is that many of the former rail lines have been burried under new construction. The retail complex at Birstall for example. My wife an Ossett girl used to travel home from Wakey on the train until Beeching closed the line, and now where Ossett station was is housing. The other link between Wakefield and Bradford via Morley is also largely built over. The Leeds plan involved running over former track bed to Tingley that is still largely extant.

Reginal Perrin · Post by **Reginal Perrin** » Wed 26 Aug, 2009 9:47 am

Quote: The trouble as regards West Yorkshire is that many of the former rail lines have been burried under new construction. The retail complex at Birstall for example. My wife an Ossett girl used to travel home from Wakey on the train until Beeching closed the line, and now where Ossett station was is housing. The other link between Wakefield and Bradford via Morley is also largely built over. The Leeds plan involved running over former track bed to Tingley that is still largely extant. I understand what you say but there are plenty of alternatives, such as usubng existing lines into town but have branches off into different suburbs and a loop in the town centre. For instance A spur from Hunslet to Rothwell, one up into Middleton. It should be about serving large suburbs which don't already have a train station otherwise there is really no point to it. Then you can replace the rolling stock steadily with light rail versions on the dame track guage. If it's not going to be integrated in this way I fail to see why they are chucking money at it, it seems a waste of time.I've said before, the Southern proposal is totally without merit, it is looking to serve an areas saturated with bus services at present.

simong · Post by **simong** » Wed 26 Aug, 2009 1:39 pm

Trojan wrote: The trouble as regards West Yorkshire is that many of the former rail lines have been burried under new construction. The retail complex at Birstall for example. My wife an Ossett girl used to travel home from Wakey on the train until Beeching closed the line, and now where Ossett station was is housing. The other link between Wakefield and Bradford via Morley is also largely built over. The Leeds plan involved running over former track bed to Tingley that is still largely extant. Also true, although Leeds also seems to have suffered more than other places in that respect. Compared to Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow or even Newcastle, the area's suburban rail network didn't survive that well, and there wasn't enough to consider converting the leftovers into tram or light rail. As revolutions in transport go, we haven't really got a particularily good starting position.