Leeds trolleybus scheme delayed further

[The Calls]

This meeting is an opportunity which may not be repeated to ask Councillor Richard Lewis and Councillor James Lewis why they want to proceed with a scheme which has nothing to commend it, and which is so unpopular with the Leeds public.

[Phill_dvsn]

The Calls wrote: This meeting is an opportunity which may not be repeated to ask Councillor Richard Lewis and Councillor James Lewis why they want to proceed with a scheme which has nothing to commend it, and which is so unpopular with the Leeds public. Loads of whitewash and flannel!!It's the meetings at the masonic lodge attended by shady men wearing sunglasses, and clutching briefcases in black gloved hands that we want to attend. Such meetings where things like incentives, perks, bonuses, and holidays in the sun are discussed.That's the reason they want this scheme to go ahead, which of course they'll never admit to the corruption and dodgy dealing going on behind the scenes at the public meeting (spin, economic with the truth meeting)

[book]

It's Bank Holiday weekend and I've just driven along Kirkstall Road restricted to one lane because there is a red bus lane for buses only. I didn't see a bus on my journey from the evening post building to Horsforth or on my return. It's now a 30 mph speed limit for no reason I can understand. What was the years of hold up on this road really all about? It's pretty obvious that Leeds needs resources spending on it but how many more brainless schemes will the people put up with. Train carriages are full at peak times but there is no sign of easing that situation. Some people do want to drive around Leeds and have to put up with the Kirkstall Road failure and it's ghost buses.

[BLAKEY]

"He added that property prices along the route are going up, which has been a welcome benefit of the New Generation Transport (NGT) network."Oh dear oh dear oh dear, so this is the view of one of our esteemed councillors is it ?? Property prices along the route may well be going up but IF they are how on Earth can this be a "welcome benefit" of the NGT "network" - what network ?? As far as I'm aware there is only one route and the odd lesser extension or two - and the main route is roughly along a difficult roadway (A660) which has so many long standing problems that an incredibly expensive farce like this will more than likely make things worse. I sink further into despair when I hear of these way out ideas.Another contributor to this topic (Mr. Book) appears to pour scorn aplenty on the Kirkstall Road quality bus corridor. In defence of this scheme let me say that the way in which this colossal scheme was completed virtually on schedule and within budget is a credit to all concerned and, far from being a failure of any kind, it has revolutionised bus travel on this previously gridlocked route at peak periods. Naturally our critic would see little if any obvious dramatic benefit on a Bank holiday Sunday !! - that was not the purpose of the scheme. On the subject of the speed limit - this section of road from Wellington Bridge to Kirkstall Abbey has so many critical junctions and buslness premises and shops that 30 mph is more than fast enough in my view, and is routinely and considerably exceeded by hordes who think differently.In a similar way the outbound bus lane on Burley Road, open for a good while now, has drastically reduced delays to buses at busy times. Previously the peak hour norm was for buses to begin queueing for Willow Road at Park Lane College, but in a brilliant and remarkably inexpensive scheme involving the purchase of a moderate amount of land and some lane markings and street signage that section of the journey has been reduced to around three minutes or so, synchronised traffic signals allowing the buses to regain the main carriageway of Burley Road just before Willow Road junction.    

[book]

I have no problem with quality public transport and I am a great supporter of it. My point is there was no buses on the route but cars were banned from using the bus lane on a Bank Holiday, if that's not brainless I don't know what is. On the point made about train travel, the line runs adjacent from Guiseley to the City and could move more people faster if there were enough carriages and therefore the investment should have been in rail on that corridor and not an empty bus lane. Hard stands could be built to take passengers from various points on that corridor by rail. I can't see any advantage to the millions spent on the Kirkstall Road quality transport scheme. Buses can do a great job in areas where rail is not an option. I have options where I live to take bus or rail into Leeds and rail wins every time. If I visit family and want to get to Horsforth then Moortown then Scarcroft neither bus or rail is practical and I don't see a reason to be held up by restrictive unused bus lanes on Bank Holidays.

[BLAKEY]

[quotenick="book"]I have no problem with quality public transport and I am a great supporter of it. My point is there was no buses on the route but cars were banned from using the bus lane on a Bank Holiday, if that's not brainless I don't know what is. On the point made about train travel, the line runs adjacent from Guiseley to the City and could move more people faster if there were enough carriages and therefore the investment should have been in rail on that corridor and not an empty bus lane. Hard stands could be built to take passengers from various points on that corridor by rail. I can't see any advantage to the millions spent on the Kirkstall Road quality transport scheme. [quote}I willingly agree with you that the Kirkstall Road scheme could perhaps allow all traffic to use the bus lanes "out of hours" and at Bank holidays, but that doesn't take away the enormous and essential advantages of the Corridor at most times, which was of course its primary purpose - I suppose "agree to differ" must rule here As regards the atrocious and, I don't hesitate to use the word, dangerous overcrowding on the trains I agree - and believe me the Guiseley trains are adequate luxury compared with the Headingley line which has to be suffered to be believed. Incidentally I can't see how, having left Guiseley, that the line runs near enough to the A65 to be accessible to passengers on that road ?? I have no hesitation in saying that many's the time I have refused to board some trains where it was literally impossible to cram another sardine into ANY of the doorways, and minutes before departure too !! The mockery of the "safety notices" is crimina - "Do not obstruct the doorways and steps" etc etc. as are the spluttering PA announcements (if any) that "safety notices are posted throughout the train and if you see anything suspicious please inform the conductor." I could show the Railway authorities two very easy ways to generate extra funds at once.1) Start painting (or vynil) the trains in a simple, dignified and economical livery instead of all the ridiculous and meaningless swoops and designs in incompatible colours - and muck covered pictures of Yorkshire town halls etc etc 2) Insist that conductors make some real attempt to bring in the revenue by taking fares. A few do their very best and are to be complimented, while others disappear into their rear cabins after every station and never issue a ticket. We regular passengers can accurately forecast who will take the fares and who won't !! I've informed Northern Rail many a time about this and that hundreds, literally, are travelling free daily between Burley Park, Headingley and Horsforth (and on occasions far beyond) without being troubled for any cash. Some of these have, of course, enjoyed the same treat on inward trains from places like South Elmsall, Wakefield etc etc. As long as the exit station is unmanned these passengers have little option but to ride for nothing, other than to remit the fare by post !!Well, this topic has wandered from the Trolleybus/Otley Road subject, but in terms of general transport revenue it is relevant surely.    

[raveydavey]

I noticed today that the speed limits on Otley Road from GAP all the way down to virtually Lawnswood Crematorium have been lowered.There are several small 'new speed limit applies' signs up.No, I know that the folly bus is intended to start from the now empty student campus, but the cynic in me wonders if these reduced speed limits have anything to do with creating congestion on the inbound route and extending journey times for incoming drivers from Bramhope, Otley. etc? Certainly traffic was bunching up much worse than I'd normally expect today.I can see no other reason for them and don't recall seeing any proposals or consultations regarding them (as is meant to be carried out prior to any changes). Although, as usual a quick Google indicates that the information has been "in the public domain' for a while, although not necessarily publicised to anyone not specifically looking for it...30MPH speed limitA660 Otley Road from New Adel Lane to Kingsley Drive – reduction from 40mph. There will be no repeater signs as the street lighting will indicate 30mph as per the Highway Code.40MPH speed limitOtley Road from Lawnswood roundabout to New Adel Lane – no change.Leeds Road from the roundabout at Kings Road, Bramhope to just past the entrance to Quarry Road, Pool 50MPH speed limit Otley Road/Leeds Road from Kingsley Drive, Adel to Kings Road roundabout, Bramhope – reduction from 60mph.

[Loiner1960]

The reduction of speed limits, which I noticed this week, is more to save money. A National Speed limit A road has to meet standards for slip, pot holes etc. The limits are less stringent at 50mph. And so it goes for all the 40mph made to 30mph. It does seem folly bus is creating some feedback in the YEP this past few weeks. Apparently the road widening would happen even if the whole thing is abandoned.The A65 Kirkstall Road bus lane. Mmm. Only ever seen one bus using it. The only reason there was spare land was because the houses, shops and people who lived there were moved out in the early 70's. I remember a study done on city centre access by Leeds University in the 60's. They found that by building lots of roads, there was nothing to go to!. My point being, destroying a community, doesn't make the roads work better. There is nothing there for the roads to service. Examples. Roscoe Junction. This was a run down area but it was alive. All gone now. Holbeck, now just a motorway junction.

[book]

Yes the motorways that have cut through the heart of Leeds are beyond belief. Not only have they cut through suberbs and villages but they have ignored noise pollution for most of South Leeds. No noise reducing plantation in Thorpe with its primary school perched at the side of the motorway has been implemented when it could have been easily planned. Holbeck must be a polluted nightmare for residents. This maybe swaying from the topic but anyone who will suffer from new transport initiatives beware because once it happens no one gives a damn.

[WiggyDiggy]

book wrote: It's Bank Holiday weekend and I've just driven along Kirkstall Road restricted to one lane because there is a red bus lane for buses only. I didn't see a bus on my journey from the evening post building to Horsforth or on my return. It's now a 30 mph speed limit for no reason I can understand. What was the years of hold up on this road really all about? It's pretty obvious that Leeds needs resources spending on it but how many more brainless schemes will the people put up with. Train carriages are full at peak times but there is no sign of easing that situation. Some people do want to drive around Leeds and have to put up with the Kirkstall Road failure and it's ghost buses. Try using the road when its not a bank holiday, plenty of bus's and cyclists using it then. But despite the faster journey time for a bus, its still quicker door-door on my bike as you still need to walk to the stop and wait, and then walk at the other end.Its 30mph for a reason, firstly the large amount of shops, business's and housing in the area (plus a public park, school and a playgroup centre) mean a 30 limit is only sensible. Secondly given when it is clear the 30 limit is widely ignored in favour of 40/50 you can mulitply that increase to 70/80 if you made the road any faster.I'd consider this scheme (a65) to be one of the better examples of road improvements that LCC has undertaken, anyone of the opinion otherwise had obviously not had the pleasure of using it previously.