Rail Re-Openings - Dr Beeching

[rangieowner]

edgey2001 wrote: Did anyone watch the programs last night on BBC4 about Britains railways, A fascinating interview with Beeching from 1981, He was still repentant even then and didnt regret anything at all about his infamous Re-shaping report, which brings me onto the former rail network around Leeds, Just for instance a large pot of money was available to improve the local network, Which line or station do you think could be re-opened and would pay its way now?, what about the Leeds wetherby Line for example, it is generally still intact and could cut congestion in that part of the region. your views please. The old line thru Kippax and Allerton Bywater from Garforth would more than pay for itself these days, Direct links to Castleford, Leeds and Pontefract would knock spots off the shameful bus services serving Kippax and Allerton Bywater. Kippax to Leeds is currently 55 mins by bus, this would be slashed to around 10 mins by train and the 20 or so mins to Cas would be cut to just a couple of mins!

[Phill_dvsn]

Most of the Cas-Garforth trackbed is still place too Rangie. It's a cycle path from Garforth-Allerton Byewater. There's only a few industrial units built on it at Garforth. The old tracks are still down from Allerton pit to Castleford. The bridge over the river Aire is seriously buggered & the Wheldon road bridge has only just been removed.It wouldn't be a hard line to re open. Cost is one factor I guess.

[chameleon]

edgey2001 wrote: I think the only way to improve the transport system in the whole region is for the local authorities in Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale ect, to join forces and plan a thoroughly intergrated transport system that involves all the major conurbations in the region, so you can travel between Wakelfield, Bradford, Leeds, Huddersfield ect quickly and cheaply, I think this would be more appealing to central Governent when applying for grants and expenditure ect. I dont think that Bradford on its own would get any help in updating its rail network as it stands today, It has a poor rail network compared to the size of the city and deserves a lot better, Re-opening the Spen Valley Line for example or including Bradford in the Supertram scheme are just a couple of ideas that spring to mind. I don't think there is much doubting that in general terms, train travel is convenient and fast. There are people I work with who's journey times from Wakefield, Huddersfield and so on are shorter than my drive from the outskirts into the centre but - when you add the time it takes many of them to reach their station from home using say, the bus, it's a different matter.Improving rail by itself is not sufficient, it is the entire infrastructure which needs to be integrated (dare I say, Joined Up!). For as long as I can remember, there have been initiatives to reduce the number of cars going into the centre, at one time the policy was even to reduce the number of public parking places like for like with every private space created in the centre; every one of these schemes, whether reducing or discouraging parking by cost, or restricting access through road alterations has without fail been accompanied with a promise to improve public transport.It doesn't happen. There are always obstacles to be overcome and these inevitably revolve finally around cost and the cost is usually the death nell.Again, rightly said, such a massive change and improvemnt will not come about through altering just one aspect of travel, it must be an all-encompassing policy. This was clearly a difficult task when transport was publically owned but now with the competition of the private initiative, and quite naturally profit been the driving force (and let's not pretend it's not), it seems even less likely to happen.That in a way brings us back to Beeching - the lines which loose money are axed beacuse they run at a loss. The same has happened all over the country with bus travel moving to the private operator - under used routes have to be subsidised and increased competition means more operators plying for the same number of users - sooner or later, the routes are visciously cut back ar cut all together.The only way to provide wider area and improved, comfortable, reliable services, where and when you want them is to find more money - and we all know that means the travelling public paying a lot more, and few of us want to do that really do we? It is hard to think that the ideal will ever be achieved.

[Bramley4woods]

chameleon wrote: edgey2001 wrote: I think the only way to improve the transport system in the whole region is for the local authorities in Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale ect, to join forces and plan a thoroughly intergrated transport system that involves all the major conurbations in the region, so you can travel between Wakelfield, Bradford, Leeds, Huddersfield ect quickly and cheaply, I think this would be more appealing to central Governent when applying for grants and expenditure ect. I dont think that Bradford on its own would get any help in updating its rail network as it stands today, It has a poor rail network compared to the size of the city and deserves a lot better, Re-opening the Spen Valley Line for example or including Bradford in the Supertram scheme are just a couple of ideas that spring to mind. I don't think there is much doubting that in general terms, train travel is convenient and fast. There are people I work with who's journey times from Wakefield, Huddersfield and so on are shorter than my drive from the outskirts into the centre but - when you add the time it takes many of them to reach their station from home using say, the bus, it's a different matter.Improving rail by itself is not sufficient, it is the entire infrastructure which needs to be integrated (dare I say, Joined Up!). For as long as I can remember, there have been initiatives to reduce the number of cars going into the centre, at one time the policy was even to reduce the number of public parking places like for like with every private space created in the centre; every one of these schemes, whether reducing or discouraging parking by cost, or restricting access through road alterations has without fail been accompanied with a promise to improve public transport.It doesn't happen. There are always obstacles to be overcome and these inevitably revolve finally around cost and the cost is usually the death nell.Again, rightly said, such a massive change and improvemnt will not come about through altering just one aspect of travel, it must be an all-encompassing policy. This was clearly a difficult task when transport was publically owned but now with the competition of the private initiative, and quite naturally profit been the driving force (and let's not pretend it's not), it seems even less likely to happen.That in a way brings us back to Beeching - the lines which loose money are axed beacuse they run at a loss. The same has happened all over the country with bus travel moving to the private operator - under used routes have to be subsidised and increased competition means more operators plying for the same number of users - sooner or later, the routes are visciously cut back ar cut all together.The only way to provide wider area and improved, comfortable, reliable services, where and when you want them is to find more money - and we all know that means the travelling public paying a lot more, and few of us want to do that really do we? It is hard to think that the ideal will ever be achieved. The real problem is that when the main "spine" of the rail network was built 170 years ago it was inevitably built to serve major destinations in order to make money and freight made more money than passengers. Some of the places it passed along the way may have been given stations but usually the railway ran some distance out of town ( to save cost and so that the railway line didn't bisect the village leading to half of the population living on "The wrong side of the tracks" as happened in Leeds) so the station was not particularly conveniently located to operate a commuter service. Some small villages had 2, 3 or even more stations but all were a mile or so out of the centre. Gildersome, Morley, Bramley, Headingley, Kirkstall, Beeston, Batley, Horsforth and Churwell being prime examples.More or less in todays terms you would still have to have a car to get home from the station. If your journey is only 3-5 miles you might just as well stay in the car and take it into town.All of which is just a long way of saying that the railways do best at what they were built for and that's not getting passengers 2 or 3 miles back home at the end of their day's work. They lost that business to the trams 100 years ago and the trams then lost out to the buses in turn, because they couldn't run into the new housing estates.In Eastern Europe they seem to have got it right, the trams run out to sattelite bus stations where the pax transfer to local buses which run into the housing schemes. That works.

[Trojan]

Bramley4woods wrote: [ but all were a mile or so out of the centre. Gildersome, Morley, Bramley, Headingley, Kirkstall, Beeston, Batley, Horsforth and Churwell being prime examples. Morley Low is quite a way out of the centre of Morley. I have this fantasy that a station could be built in the centre of the town at the bottom of the air shaft behind the Post Office. It'll never happen but if I ruled the world Morley would have a transport interchange there. (Morley still has no bus station) However that's to digress. Morley's other station Morley Top was quite convenient for the town centre. It was at one time possible to get to Bradford, Wakefield and points south including London, and by changing at Tingley to Leeds. But Beeching closed it. The remaining evidence that it existed at all are Great Northern Street and the ATS building - if you look closely you can just see the LNER logo.

[rangieowner]

Phill_dvsn wrote: Most of the Cas-Garforth trackbed is still place too Rangie. It's a cycle path from Garforth-Allerton Byewater. There's only a few industrial units built on it at Garforth. The old tracks are still down from Allerton pit to Castleford. The bridge over the river Aire is seriously buggered & the Wheldon road bridge has only just been removed.It wouldn't be a hard line to re open. Cost is one factor I guess. Yes Phil i am well aware of the track bed condition i have cycled it more than once and spend a lot of time in the area, re-opening that line would require the removal of one ind. unit, replacing Wheldon Road, river crossing and Ninelands Lane bridges and would need a level crossing to cross Green Lane in East Garforth just before it joins the Selby line and one or two sections of embankment need re-building! That's where the money comes in! I would imagine it would be quite expensive to build suitable embankments these days!! Then of course the track needs to be re-layed!! £££££££

[cnosni]

rangieowner wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: Most of the Cas-Garforth trackbed is still place too Rangie. It's a cycle path from Garforth-Allerton Byewater. There's only a few industrial units built on it at Garforth. The old tracks are still down from Allerton pit to Castleford. The bridge over the river Aire is seriously buggered & the Wheldon road bridge has only just been removed.It wouldn't be a hard line to re open. Cost is one factor I guess. Yes Phil i am well aware of the track bed condition i have cycled it more than once and spend a lot of time in the area, re-opening that line would require the removal of one ind. unit, replacing Wheldon Road, river crossing and Ninelands Lane bridges and would need a level crossing to cross Green Lane in East Garforth just before it joins the Selby line and one or two sections of embankment need re-building! That's where the money comes in! I would imagine it would be quite expensive to build suitable embankments these days!! Then of course the track needs to be re-layed!! £££££££ Probably cheaper to bomb Cas,actually,no,it would be cheaper.Plus of course all the benefits that would bring

[Trojan]

cnosni wrote: rangieowner wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: Most of the Cas-Garforth trackbed is still place too Rangie. It's a cycle path from Garforth-Allerton Byewater. There's only a few industrial units built on it at Garforth. The old tracks are still down from Allerton pit to Castleford. The bridge over the river Aire is seriously buggered & the Wheldon road bridge has only just been removed.It wouldn't be a hard line to re open. Cost is one factor I guess. Yes Phil i am well aware of the track bed condition i have cycled it more than once and spend a lot of time in the area, re-opening that line would require the removal of one ind. unit, replacing Wheldon Road, river crossing and Ninelands Lane bridges and would need a level crossing to cross Green Lane in East Garforth just before it joins the Selby line and one or two sections of embankment need re-building! That's where the money comes in! I would imagine it would be quite expensive to build suitable embankments these days!! Then of course the track needs to be re-layed!! £££££££ Probably cheaper to bomb Cas,actually,no,it would be cheaper.Plus of course all the benefits that would bring I worked in Cas for ten years. If England had piles, Cas is where they'd be

[cnosni]

Trojan wrote: cnosni wrote: rangieowner wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: Most of the Cas-Garforth trackbed is still place too Rangie. It's a cycle path from Garforth-Allerton Byewater. There's only a few industrial units built on it at Garforth. The old tracks are still down from Allerton pit to Castleford. The bridge over the river Aire is seriously buggered & the Wheldon road bridge has only just been removed.It wouldn't be a hard line to re open. Cost is one factor I guess. Yes Phil i am well aware of the track bed condition i have cycled it more than once and spend a lot of time in the area, re-opening that line would require the removal of one ind. unit, replacing Wheldon Road, river crossing and Ninelands Lane bridges and would need a level crossing to cross Green Lane in East Garforth just before it joins the Selby line and one or two sections of embankment need re-building! That's where the money comes in! I would imagine it would be quite expensive to build suitable embankments these days!! Then of course the track needs to be re-layed!! £££££££ Probably cheaper to bomb Cas,actually,no,it would be cheaper.Plus of course all the benefits that would bring I worked in Cas for ten years. If England had piles, Cas is where they'd be Oh yes.but for some odd reason ,probably because i worked there for a while,i have a soft spot for Cas.Shame they hate Leeds,for whatever reason they have.Same as Huddersfield.Where does it come from?

[Si]

I thought Huddersfield's problem was with Halifax? I'm married to a Huddersfield lass, and she likes Leeds (apart from driving through it!)