Rail Re-Openings - Dr Beeching

Post by **cnosni** » Sat 04 Oct, 2008 1:06 am

Trojan wrote: liits wrote: [ We get South Leeds Stadium and they get Don Valley. We get half assed promised and two purple bendy buses they get a tram system. Yes and Sheffield haven't finished paying for the Don Valley white elephant 17 years after the World Student Games finished. Yes Trojan,see my post before.BUT they STILL get even MORE money chucked at em!!Same old story,its like those that live on benefits all their life and still get more money to enable you to sit at home ,smoke woodbines drink Barley Wine and not pay debts ORPay yer way and get shaftedSheffield 1Leeds 0

Trojan · Post by **Trojan** » Sat 04 Oct, 2008 1:08 am

edgey2001 wrote: Did anyone watch the programs last night on BBC4 about Britains railways, A fascinating interview with Beeching from 1981, He was still repentant even then and didnt regret anything at all about his infamous Re-shaping report, which brings me onto the former rail network around Leeds, Just for instance a large pot of money was available to improve the local network, Which line or station do you think could be re-opened and would pay its way now?, what about the Leeds wetherby Line for example, it is generally still intact and could cut congestion in that part of the region. your views please. I watched it and it confirmed what I've believed all along - it was a stitch up by Marples. The whole point was to close the railways and make more motorways necessary.The people collecting statistics were collecting them at lunch time when the trains were least used. The guy at Exeter who had an idea as to how the line could be kept open was silenced with threats. Short termism is a the British disease. In the eighties British Rail tried with might and main to close the Settle Carlisle by neglecting it, and deliberately not using it. It was only a huge public protest that stopped them. Thats' the way things happen in our country.Take Bradford. Up to the mid sixties Bradford had two direct rail links to London. Trains from London would split at Wakefield Westgate and three coaches would travel to Bradford - the rest to Leeds. The line via Morley (where the London trains also stopped) was closed as was the line via Dewsbury. Bradford a major city lost its direct link to the captial. My wife, an Ossett girl used to work in Wakefield and travel home on the Bradford line - it took 6 minutes and was always packed - of course the bean counters presumably checked passenger numbers at lunch time and closed it. The Beeching cuts weakened our railways. It was an absolute disgrace. I've travelled quite a lot in France and nearly every small town has its station. The French got rid of their Royals and kept their railway we did the opposite.

Uno Hoo · Post by **Uno Hoo** » Sun 05 Oct, 2008 6:40 pm

As a Bradford resident (with strong Leeds roots) I've been intrigued to read some of the comments painting Leeds as the poor relation. Here in Bradford, Leeds is perceived as being the local rich kid who gets all the sweeties. And our two dead-end rail branch lines haven't been joined up despite our having had a large hole instead of a city centre for quite a while. There'll never be another opportunity like this, with most of the intervening buildings out of the way.I'm not looking for sympathy for Bradford. This is a site about Leeds. But I thought you might be interested to hear how Bradford sees Leeds' grass as being several shades greener.

Si · Post by Si » Mon 06 Oct, 2008 9:50 am

Uno Hoo wrote: As a Bradford resident (with strong Leeds roots) I've been intrigued to read some of the comments painting Leeds as the poor relation. Here in Bradford, Leeds is perceived as being the local rich kid who gets all the sweeties. And our two dead-end rail branch lines haven't been joined up despite our having had a large hole instead of a city centre for quite a while. There'll never be another opportunity like this, with most of the intervening buildings out of the way.I'm not looking for sympathy for Bradford. This is a site about Leeds. But I thought you might be interested to hear how Bradford sees Leeds' grass as being several shades greener. I agree. I was brought up in Pudsey (between the two) in the 60s, and Leeds was always seen as the more affluent city.

edgey2001 · Post by **edgey2001** » Mon 06 Oct, 2008 11:07 am

I think the only way to improve the transport system in the whole region is for the local authorities in Leeds, Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale ect, to join forces and plan a thoroughly intergrated transport system that involves all the major conurbations in the region, so you can travel between Wakelfield, Bradford, Leeds, Huddersfield ect quickly and cheaply, I think this would be more appealing to central Governent when applying for grants and expenditure ect. I dont think that Bradford on its own would get any help in updating its rail network as it stands today, It has a poor rail network compared to the size of the city and deserves a lot better, Re-opening the Spen Valley Line for example or including Bradford in the Supertram scheme are just a couple of ideas that spring to mind.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Mon 06 Oct, 2008 11:31 am

I look at a lot of these old lines, It's a shame to see all that engineering, taking many years to build the lines now closed and overgrown.The grand scale of Gildersome, and Queensbury tunnels are sobering to see. .The popularity of the motor car in the 50's and 60's was the death knell for many of these branch lines. The Nationalisation of B.R in the 60's saw many of the 'duplicate' routes abandoned also.What was a crass act of short sightedness, and poor planning with the Beeching axe is now irreversible. Many of the routes are lost forever, in this day and age were people would love to leave there cars at home and use a reliable train service.Dave has a fantastic 'Lost rails of West Yorkshire' website herehttp://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/It's a good read.

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 06 Oct, 2008 11:35 am

Uno Hoo wrote: As a Bradford resident (with strong Leeds roots) I've been intrigued to read some of the comments painting Leeds as the poor relation. Here in Bradford, Leeds is perceived as being the local rich kid who gets all the sweeties. And our two dead-end rail branch lines haven't been joined up despite our having had a large hole instead of a city centre for quite a while. There'll never be another opportunity like this, with most of the intervening buildings out of the way.I'm not looking for sympathy for Bradford. This is a site about Leeds. But I thought you might be interested to hear how Bradford sees Leeds' grass as being several shades greener. Clearly Bradford is a deserving case,it has suffered as much as any other city in the UK.The reason why Leeds does have some advantages over Bradford are not because we have had hand outs from the EU or Uk government.What we do have has been pretty much self financing,so as to where people in Bradford would see Leeds as getting all the sweeties from im not quite sure,its what weve paid for pretty much ourselves in comparison to other large cities.I cant really think about any examples of large scale funding that Leeds has recieved for particular projects (Trams,Crossrail,EU culture,sporting events etc)such as Sheffield ,Manchester,Liverpool,Glasgow,Edingburgh,Nottingham and Croydon,and of course the mother ship,London have done.I wonder if anyone can point out an example.

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 06 Oct, 2008 11:43 am

Si wrote: Uno Hoo wrote: As a Bradford resident (with strong Leeds roots) I've been intrigued to read some of the comments painting Leeds as the poor relation. Here in Bradford, Leeds is perceived as being the local rich kid who gets all the sweeties. And our two dead-end rail branch lines haven't been joined up despite our having had a large hole instead of a city centre for quite a while. There'll never be another opportunity like this, with most of the intervening buildings out of the way.I'm not looking for sympathy for Bradford. This is a site about Leeds. But I thought you might be interested to hear how Bradford sees Leeds' grass as being several shades greener. I agree. I was brought up in Pudsey (between the two) in the 60s, and Leeds was always seen as the more affluent city. I would agree that Leeds is a more affluent city BUT it has suffered as much as Bradford,especially in the clothing industry.Where Leeds has benefited is from not having all their eggs in one basket,we had a wide range of diverse industries,which even today contiues to evolve,see this linkhttp://www.careerbuilder.co.uk/UK/JobSeeker/Ca ... 1-R1-4None of this has been because Leeds has been shown favouritism,its because Leeds was better placed to deal with the complete loss of one or two major industries,unlike Liverpool that lost the docks and Sheffield/South Yorkshire who lost the steel industry and its nearby coalfields.This is what i mean about perception,that Leeds is wealthy.Maybe so in personal wealth,but not civic wealth,other wise we wlould have trams,arenas,underground etc etc.Bradford obviously doesnt have these either,so id say they have pretty much been treated the same as well.Come to think of it,what about West Yorkshire as a whole,in comparison to Greater Manchester,Merseyside and South Yorkshire?

Post by **cnosni** » Mon 06 Oct, 2008 11:56 am

Phill_dvsn wrote: I look at a lot of these old lines, It's a shame to see all that engineering, taking many years to build the lines now closed and overgrown.The grand scale of Gildersome, and Queensbury tunnels are sobering to see. .The advent of the motor car in the 50's and 60's was the death knell for many of these branch lines. The Nationalisation of B.R in the 60's saw many of the 'duplicate' routes abandoned also.What was a crass act of short sightedness, and poor planning with the Beeching axe is now irreversible. Many of the routes are lost forever, in this day and age were people would love to leave there cars at home and use a reliable train service.Dave has a fantastic 'Lost rails of West Yorkshire' website herehttp://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/It's a good read. Yes,these closures were shortsighted,even more so these days.Im not so sure that the people who employed Beeching to do the hatchet job (it was they who were ultimately reponsible) ever had any idea about the scale of personal car/vehicle ownership levels would be.When all these cuts happened the number of cars on the road ws small compared to today.This was because a car was still way out of the financial reach of the everyday person.So they probably thought that this would always be the case,the roads wont get busy where people are stuck in slow moving traffic causing as then unknown damage to the eco system.They mad a decision based on one factor only,££.They never even comprehended the sheer scale of traffic levels in the future.Greed and ignorance

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Mon 06 Oct, 2008 1:01 pm

Yeah your right really but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was speaking to my grandparents the other day who are in their 90's and they never ever envisaged that cars would be where they are today.My Grandpa worked in Bradford and used to travel from Leeds everyday before the ringroad was built, so from North Leeds through Stanningley (before the bypass) in the 50's and he said there would be hardly any cars that he would pass.