Leeds trolley buses set to get the go ahead!

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Mon 27 Dec, 2010 10:02 pm

BLAKEY wrote: Haven't these idealistic clowns - and I include the vehicle manufacturers in that - learnt their lesson from the fiasco generally referred to with derogatory intent as "the Purple Slug" ?? As far as I know these idiotic and unwieldy creations cost around £330,000 each - for less than fifty seats. Then there is all the sickening infantile hype about calling them "streetcars" - they are of course articulated buses with wheel spats and nothing more. The intention was that the "pilot" would sit in his "cockpit" away from contact with the passengers, who would have had prepaid tickets or else paid at bus stop machines. All this of course failed before it started and now the "flight crew" includes - you're expecting me to say conductors aren't you?? - "customer service hosts" !! The one advantage that these creations have over trolleybuses though is that they don't need any external expensive infrastructure - wiring, generating stations etc - but when you've said that you've said the lot. I've never been a Luddite just for the sake of it, but I fervently hope that this barmy and hideously expensive farce never gets any further than the play school colouring book stage !! Don't forget though that Worst only introduced the "street cars" to put the skids under the Supertram bid which they knew was going to cost them business on some very busy routes (4, 16 and 56 for example) if it got the go ahead. It's funny that the Leeds other bendy buses, in use on the 1 route, were all quietly scrapped a year or so ago at under 10 years old and the route has gone back over to double decker operation.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Tue 28 Dec, 2010 10:22 am

raveydavey wrote: [Don't forget though that Worst only introduced the "street cars" to put the skids under the Supertram bid which they knew was going to cost them business on some very busy routes (4, 16 and 56 for example) if it got the go ahead. It's funny that the Leeds other bendy buses, in use on the 1 route, were all quietly scrapped a year or so ago at under 10 years old and the route has gone back over to double decker operation. Very true, and of course the number 4 route in York (University to Acomb) now only uses the purple affairs Monday to Saturday daytime as "First" are not prepared to pay "customer service hosts" during the more quiet times. Evenings and Sundays its now operated by normal OPO buses. I believe that a third place in Wales is due to have purple treats soon, or already, but that all seems to have gone quiet for now. Whatever the end result of all this though, the concept of these "street cars" is an expensive insult to the intelligence of the travelling public - as the old saying goes "a rose by any name is but a rose" and they are simply articulated buses totally unsuitable and obstructive for normal service use on our city road layouts.In fairness though I must say that, unlikely as it seems on paper, the excellent Park and Ride schemes in York are superb. Due I imagine to the very few stops, and to their locations in rare peaceful spots, the huge articulated vehicles seem to sail round congested narrow York streets and the difficult outer roads without a whimper - this is a concept that in practice can't be criticised I feel.

Loiner1960 · Post by **Loiner1960** » Wed 29 Dec, 2010 5:16 pm

raveydavey wrote: I wish I had money to burn on pie in the sky grandoise plans like these like Metro clearly do.How much have all these abortive mass transit plans cost over the years? Enough to let us all travel on the bus for free for a good year or two I'd imagine.Thank the lord that no-one at Metro has ever seen the episode of The Simpsons where the citizens of Springfield buy a monorail system just to stop Shelbyville getting building it, or we know what would surely follow next. You better look through previous posts. Leeds had plans for a mono-rail when the Headrow was re-developed in the 1930's

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Tue 04 Jan, 2011 2:32 pm

BLAKEY wrote: I believe that a third place in Wales is due to have purple treats soon, or already, but that all seems to have gone quiet for now. Whatever the end result of all this though, the concept of these "street cars" is an expensive insult to the intelligence of the travelling public - as the old saying goes "a rose by any name is but a rose" and they are simply articulated buses totally unsuitable and obstructive for normal service use on our city road layouts. Swansea - http://www.goftr.com/swansea/home.phpI see that another operator is starting in Leeds from the end of the month "Yorkshire Line".

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Wed 05 Jan, 2011 9:33 am

tyke bhoy wrote: BLAKEY wrote: I believe that a third place in Wales is due to have purple treats soon, or already, but that all seems to have gone quiet for now. Whatever the end result of all this though, the concept of these "street cars" is an expensive insult to the intelligence of the travelling public - as the old saying goes "a rose by any name is but a rose" and they are simply articulated buses totally unsuitable and obstructive for normal service use on our city road layouts. Swansea - http://www.goftr.com/swansea/home.phpI see that another operator is starting in Leeds from the end of the month "Yorkshire Line". I've just had a look at the Swansea "ftr" website and, as I've remarked about Leeds and York, arrogance and lack of real substance in the "spin" leaves me aghast. Looking beyond all the hype and the funereal lilac colours everywhere the confounded things are still nothing more than articulated buses with drivers and conductors - and the overall size and cost for fifty plus seats beggars belief. I'm afraid that the expensive Marketing and Public Relations fraternity have really struck gold with this pantomime.I know that there are some more major service alterations in Leeds at the end of the month, but I hadn't heard of "Yorkshire Line." I hate to sound pessimistic, but I fear that this may be yet another outfit running aged low specification vehicles from very basic premises and with poor staff conditions - we shall see. I should make clear that this does not mean that I am against middle aged and elderly vehicles per se - just the opposite as the fact is that many of these are better constructed and have superior riding qualities to the modern "jazzy glitz" providing that they have been and are maintained properly, but that's another debate.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Wed 05 Jan, 2011 9:55 am

Well Blakey. It seems your pessimism about 'Yorkshire Line' might be correct. Here's a pic of two of their so called buseshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/busesinwestyorksh ... 35276/I've never seen anything as bad lol

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Wed 05 Jan, 2011 10:14 am

Unfortunately Blakey only the big players can run the new breed of buses due to the capital investment required. Competition is to be welcomed from independents though if it keeps the big boys from getting far too complacent (Worst are already too complacent) even if those independent run ancient but roadworthy buses.I discovered the new operator on the Changing times leaflet for the end of the month and tried to find out more as their X10 service may be of use to me. I can't find out much more than Phil has already displayed http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&cl ... =&gs_rfai= but they do appear to be registered with an address in Holmfirth however job adverts are for drivers in Normanton. The YEP also give them a mention for their half hourly service serving Jimmy's via town from Morley http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 6678653.jp

The Doggers · Post by **The Doggers** » Wed 05 Jan, 2011 3:08 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: Well Blakey. It seems your pessimism about 'Yorkshire Line' might be correct. Here's a pic of two of their so called buseshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/busesinwestyorksh ... 35276/I've never seen anything as bad lol Not exactly awe inspiring, but competition must come from somewhere, and every bus company must start somewhere. So long as the buses are well maintained, arrive on time and charge reasonable fares, I doubt the passengers will care about how the age of the bus.It would be great to see some of these smaller operators take hold of some important routes over the new few years.One thing that really gets my goat with Worst is the 64 and 64A service in Aberford. I am working in Aberford now and rely on this bus most of the time to get me to and fro. Unfortunately, the evening buses after 5pm are usually at least 10 - 15mins late, and this is if they come at all. Often the buses arrive late to Aberford, and upon reaching the terminus are (and this has been verified by drivers) instructed not to bother running the return journey and to go straight up to the A64 and head back into town and pick up from there. I think this is disgusting! Luckily, most of the drivers are decent folk who volunteer to come back and pick passengers up anyway, often letting us on even if they have Not In Service ont he front of the buses.

Riponian · Post by **Riponian** » Wed 05 Jan, 2011 4:37 pm

I can agree with Doggers, I do think that customer service has gone out of the window with some operators and I'm fortunate to travel by one that does seem to have the idea that if they niggle their customers they go elsewhere.I'm not bothered by the age of a bus, but if it's clean and not dropping to bit plus doesn't cost an arm and a leg, then I'll use it. Leeds does need a new Samuel Legard/Black Prince to stir up Worst, and possibly what Centrebus may do in some respect. However the "what we can get away with" fares structure here does not help anyone other than the management's bonuses.If they wanted to speed up the buses in Leeds, how about them actually giving tickets to the cars that are often spotted parked in the bus lanes?Get rid of those slugs, a selection of the last batch of AEC Regents LCT bought did far better in their time and took up less space. Maybe we ought to trial some of those new style Routemasters the capital (ie throw money at it city) are getting.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Thu 06 Jan, 2011 9:16 am

Phill_dvsn wrote: Well Blakey. It seems your pessimism about 'Yorkshire Line' might be correct. Here's a pic of two of their so called buseshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/busesinwestyorksh ... 35276/I've never seen anything as bad lol Just my point Phill - these two specimens are very basic models and appear to be fifteen years old. Also as they are in "dealer white" its a fair bet that they've been around a bit, and the location of the picture says it all about garaging arrangements.Also these circumstances take us back to another major debate - whether De-regulation was the right thing or not on October 26th 1986. Personally and from inside the Industry I was and am violently against it, and all the fears expressed about it very rapidly came true at that time and persist today. Whether we like it or not, there is far less "travelling to work, cinemas etc" than in the hey day of the bus and that is a fact of social change. Buses are expensive to purchase, house, staff and maintain and putting it bluntly there is no justification for "over provision" of services. Then there is the thorny question of profit versus service. A few spendid undertakings like, for example, Harrogate & District/ Keighley and District/ Coastliner are highly commendable but are the exceptions. I need hardly mention the name of one of the major groups nationwide whose passengers are in despair at the shambles and whose sole aim is profit, profit, profit and empty and unsubstantiated "spin." This is too big a debate really for detailed discussion here but folk would be amazed to look back to 1986 and see the scandals that occurred then - just for one example locally - the entire excellent accountable transport undertakings of Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Halifax and later Todmorden disposed of for "next to nowt." I was working my last fourteen years of forty four in the Pontefract/Doncaster/Barnsley region at the time and believe me I could write a series of books of horror stories about unscrupulous upstart operators running near derelict heaps and breaking every Law in the Land, and openly poaching the diminishing number of passengers from the established and responsible operators by fair means sometimes and foul means far more regularly.I despair now, as a passenger, and I never thought I'd reach the day where I'd say that I'm grateful to be out of the Industry where I was once so interested and happy. For a final brief comment, exactly the same applies in virtually every way to the Railways.