Transpennine Express -

jim · Post by **jim** » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 10:45 am

I'm not certain where the Ordsall Curve is mhoulden, But the 2009 proposals to electrify between Manchester and Liverpool are from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly, and therefore to platforms 13 and 14 via the link between Deansgate and the Liverpool & Manchester main line. Trains from the Manchester direction for Wigan and destinations further north would continue along the L&M to Parkside Junction, from where they would reach the West Coast Main Line via Golborne Junction.I don't know of any proposition to electrify the comparatively recent link between the L&M line and the L&Y lines in the Salford Crescent/Windsor Bridge Junction area, but that doesn't rule out such ideas, I just haven't come across them.To other queries, yes, the line between Neville Hill and Colton Junction is included in the Transpennine proposals

Post by **mhoulden** » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 10:54 pm

The Ordsall Curve/chord will be a short piece of track between Salford Crescent and Mcr Deansgate. According to the Network Rail page about it at http://www.networkrail.co.uk/north/Ordsall-Chord.aspx it should allow trains from Leeds to travel through Victoria, Salford Crescent, Deansgate, Oxford Rd and Piccadilly. There are plans to build 2 new platforms at Piccadilly next to 13 and 14 to accommodate this. I think this would mean trains on the Huddersfield line would take the branch to Victoria just after Stalybridge (as some do already) and loop round, which will avoid the Guide Bridge junction and stop having airport trains cutting across all the tracks at Piccadilly. (I also like the idea of being able to get from the Calder Valley to Mcr Airport without changing trains, but that depends on whether or not they decide to do that)

jim · Post by **jim** » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 12:51 am

Interesting stuff mhoulden. I confess I hadn't come across the proposal for the Ordsall curve before. I also note that the route map accompanying your link does not show it as to be electrified - but then again it doesn't show any of the trans-pennine links to be wired either!On searching more I seem to detect a great deal of conflicting information from the various published statements on the several electrification proposals, so I think the best thing for me to do is to sit back and await developements!

WiggyDiggy · Post by **WiggyDiggy** » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 1:47 pm

Is it just me or does anyone else find it a little sad its going to take 6 years to build 1000 metres of track?I know theres the ship canal and a large road to build it over but still 6 years just seems so long for the length being built.

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 2:01 pm

WiggyDiggy wrote: Is it just me or does anyone else find it a little sad its going to take 6 years to build 1000 metres of track?I know theres the ship canal and a large road to build it over but still 6 years just seems so long for the length being built. See my thread on 3 years to build an entrance for similar sentiment when compared to the time taken to build Bridgewater place. Its a good thing Motorways don't take that long otherwise the M1 wouldn't even be North of Watford yet

headingleylad · Post by **headingleylad** » Fri 02 Dec, 2011 9:44 pm

There are proposals that the North Transpennine express trains between Leeds and Manchester would use Manchester Victoria that would speed up the journey between Stalybridge and Manchester by saving at least 10 minutes, two trains per hour would carry on to Manchester Picadilly / Manchester Airport via the new Ordsall Curve. The Manchester Hub works already approved will be speeding up tracks including extra tracks through Standedge Tunnel.

Post by **cnosni** » Sun 04 Dec, 2011 4:02 pm

jim wrote: I'm not certain where the Ordsall Curve is mhoulden, But the 2009 proposals to electrify between Manchester and Liverpool are from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly, and therefore to platforms 13 and 14 via the link between Deansgate and the Liverpool & Manchester main line. Trains from the Manchester direction for Wigan and destinations further north would continue along the L&M to Parkside Junction, from where they would reach the West Coast Main Line via Golborne Junction.I don't know of any proposition to electrify the comparatively recent link between the L&M line and the L&Y lines in the Salford Crescent/Windsor Bridge Junction area, but that doesn't rule out such ideas, I just haven't come across them.To other queries, yes, the line between Neville Hill and Colton Junction is included in the Transpennine proposals The only benefit i can see with electrifying between Neville Hill and Colton Junction is for the sake of a diversionary route for ECML 91 traction when there is disruption between Marshgate Junction and Colton Junction,in that it can be sent via the West Riding to Leeds and then east out of Leeds.The only way for any real benefit would be to increase capacity for these old electric units to provide extra services,and as we know Leeds has been at capacity since not long after the Leeds First development of the station.There is talk of putting in a "G" line at the west end,which would help with services from Methley Junction into platform,but the east end has no options to expand,so you can put up all teh wires you want and have brand new electric traction but there will be no real benefit until capacity is increased and line speed increased,this cant happen unless there is a brand new 4 track line immediately from the east end,and for many reasons this is not going to happen.I would personally like to see the Leeds Hub concentrate on schemes such as Kirkstall Forge,park and ride stations etc,to reduce traffic coming into the city at rush hours.

jim · Post by **jim** » Sun 04 Dec, 2011 4:12 pm

I think this is as part of the fully electrified Liverpool-Newcastle via Leeds proposal Cnosni - it won't save much time Leeds-York, but the rest of the route should speed up a fair bit. Might have been nice to see heritage traction hauled trains Leeds-York though, even if the two changeovers promptly lost all the time gained!

jim · Post by **jim** » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 4:28 pm

Latest official announcement on the proposed Transpennine electrification (from the February 2012 Railway Magazine):-"The original announcement by the Chancellor of the Exchequer suggested that the wires would only be erected as far as Leeds, leaving a tantalising gap eastwards that would have required diesel trains for through Liverpool-Newcastle services, thus defeating much of the object of energising the Diggle route. Transport Secretary Justine Greening says the work will now cover Guide Bridge West Junction to Copley Hill East Junction and Neville Hill West Junction to Colton Junction.......The work is, however, not scheduled until 2016-2018.In addition the DfT says it has asked Network Rail to look into the case for electrification on the following three routes: Leeds-Hull; York-Scarborough; and Northallerton-Middlesbrough. An announcement is expected in July"Note that the mention of Guide Bridge West Junction would indicate that on electrification the majority of trains using the route can be expected to continue to run via Manchester Piccadilly, rather than reverting to the route via Manchester Victoria.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Thu 05 Jan, 2012 4:35 pm

jim wrote: Note that the mention of Guide Bridge West Junction would indicate that on electrification the majority of trains using the route can be expected to continue to run via Manchester Piccadilly, rather than reverting to the route via Manchester Victoria. In so doing putting even more pressure on Piccadilly that has been running full to capacity for years. Manchester Victoria is nothing more than a local happy shopper stop station these days.