Bus Lane cameras to earn the council revenue?

[iansmithofotley]

Hi everyone,I don't have a problem with the bus lane cameras but I do have a problem with ambiguous, unreadable or a complete lack of signs. Sometimes the signs vary from (1) no entry into the bus lane at any time or (2) no entry allowed into the bus lane between certain times (usually peak traffic times). On some roads, e.g. Woodhouse Lane/Headingley Lane/Otley Road, the signs swap and change, so at some times it's okay to use the bus lane and sometimes it is not, and the signs change as you drive away from the city. There should be consistency, otherwise it is necessary to weave in and out of lanes which causes problems for other motorists in outside lanes. It is easy to see a sign and think you are okay in the lane and then miss a sign for any unintentional reason.I understand the reason for bus lanes but it should be clear for all motorists as to what is intended. It is even worse in a strange town or city, which you are not familiar with.Apart from the usual traffic signs, I have always thought that it would be a good idea to have small signs on every lamp post, on every road in every town and city, setting out the speed limit or any other restriction such as bus lane signs. They would not have to be big or expensive - strong vinyl stick-on signs would do, but it would help motorists and prevent accidents. They could be placed about 10', above the ground (to deter idiots from defacing them). I am sure it would help and also stop innocent motorists from getting prosecuted when they did not know that they were doing anything wrong.Going slightly off topic - one thing that annoys me is where 'disabled parking' is allowed on clearways (yellow lines). I remember when clearways came into being and the reasons why - to ensure the quick and efficient free-flow of traffic through towns and cities. So I can't see the point of bringing in national and local legislation to enforce the law on clearways, and the expense of painting the lines, erecting signs and employing traffic wardens to ensure the roads are parking free, at relevant times, and then allowing people with disabled badges to legally park in clearways. It totally defeats the object of the system.Please understand, I have nothing against the disabled or the badge system itself, I just think that it defeats the point of having clearways in the first place. It would have been better if councils were obliged to provide 'off road' parking for the disabled in appropriate areas in our towns and cities. (obviously I accept that there should be a short, temporary facility for a disabled person to be dropped off or picked up on a clearway).I live in Otley and there are constant traffic problems on roads at the top of the main street and near to the bus station, often caused by blue badge holders parking bumper to bumper, particularly near bends and junctions, thereby stopping the free-flow of traffic. Because some of the roads are so narrow, H.G.V.'s and buses often can not pass through and the whole town quickly becomes completely blocked. As I said previously, I have nothing against disabled people or the scheme and I do not blame them for using it because it lawful. I just think it's a bad system, that's all.I suppose that I will now have to put on my tin hat and disappear into my bunker for a while. It's just my opinion, that's all and no offence is intended.Ian    

[chameleon]

iansmithofotley wrote: Hi everyone,I don't have a problem with the bus lane cameras but I do have a problem with ambiguous, unreadable or a complete lack of signs. Sometimes the signs vary from (1) no entry into the bus lane at any time or (2) no entry allowed into the bus lane between certain times (usually peak traffic times). On some roads, e.g. Headingley Lane/Otley Road, the signs swap and change, so at some times it's okay to use the bus lane and sometimes it is not, and the signs change as you drive away from the city. There should be consistency, otherwise it is necessary to weave in and out of lanes which causes problems for other motorists in outside lanes. It is easy to see a sign and think you are okay in the lane and then miss a sign for any unintentional reason.I understand the reason for bus lanes but it should be clear for all motorists as to what is intended. It is even worse in a strange town or city, which you are not familiar with.Apart from the usual traffic signs, I have always thought that it would be a good idea to have small signs on every lamp post, on every road in every town and city, setting out the speed limit or any other restriction such as bus lane signs. They would not have to be big or expensive - strong vinyl stick-on signs would do, but it would help motorists and prevent accidents. They could be placed about 10', above the ground (to deter idiots from defacing them). I am sure it would help and also stop innocent motorists from getting prosecuted when they did not know that they were doing anything wrong.Going slightly off topic - one thing that annoys me is where 'disabled parking' is allowed on clearways (yellow lines). I remember when clearways came into being and the reasons why - to ensure the quick and efficient free-flow of traffic through towns and cities. So I can't see the point of bringing in national and local legislation to enforce the law on clearways, and the expense of painting the lines, erecting signs and employing traffic wardens to ensure the roads are parking free, at relevant times, and then allowing people with disabled badges to legally park in clearways. It totally defeats the object of the system.Please understand, I have nothing against the disabled or the badge system itself, I just think that it defeats the point of having clearways in the first place. It would have been better if councils were obliged to provide 'off road' parking for the disabled in appropriate areas in our towns and cities. (obviously I accept that there should be a short, temporary facility for a disabled person to be dropped off or picked up on a clearway).I live in Otley and there are constant traffic problems on roads at the top of the main street and near to the bus station, often caused by blue badge holders parking bumper to bumper, particularly near bends and junctions, thereby stopping the free-flow of traffic. Because some of the roads are so narrow, H.G.V.'s and buses often can not pass through and the whole town quickly becomes completely blocked. As I said previously, I have nothing against disabled people or the scheme and I do not blame them for using it because it lawful. I just think it's a bad system, that's all.I suppose that I will now have to put on my tin hat and disappear into my bunker for a while. It's just my opinion, that's all and no offence is intended.Ian     Ian surely a clearway is one denoted by red lines as seen in London for example but I take your point as an iterpretation to the varying restrictions indicated by yellow markings.A Blue Badge does allow parking on single or double yellow lines when needed BUT , only when this does not cause an obstruction to other road users. Badge holders deemed to be doing so will be asked to move. If they refuse or are not present they can and should be issued with the appropriate FPN. Similarly other acts of parking contrary to the High Way Code are not permitted because a badge is held, within 10m of a junction, access to property, crossing precincts and so on.Parking against yellow kerb marks is never permitted under this scheme at times when the the loading ban is in force and penaalties for those so doing apply as for anyone else.These rules are set down very clearly in the extensive conditions of use made available to every badge holder. I certainly endorse the principle of those abusing the concession being called to account in the same way as the many other motorists feel they can abuse the few dedicated provisions made for disabled people should be - it's a two way thing.Given that in general we all have to accept the rules on parking, I agree with another poster, how can the powers that be ever feel it propper to site 24hour taxi ranks on roads with blanket parking restrictions, the Loop Road being a prime example! Surely one of the busiedt times for taxis is the busy rush hours with traffic volumes at their greatist???

[raveydavey]

iansmithofotley wrote: Going slightly off topic - one thing that annoys me is where 'disabled parking' is allowed on clearways (yellow lines). I remember when clearways came into being and the reasons why - to ensure the quick and efficient free-flow of traffic through towns and cities. So I can't see the point of bringing in national and local legislation to enforce the law on clearways, and the expense of painting the lines, erecting signs and employing traffic wardens to ensure the roads are parking free, at relevant times, and then allowing people with disabled badges to legally park in clearways. It totally defeats the object of the system.Please understand, I have nothing against the disabled or the badge system itself, I just think that it defeats the point of having clearways in the first place. It would have been better if councils were obliged to provide 'off road' parking for the disabled in appropriate areas in our towns and cities. (obviously I accept that there should be a short, temporary facility for a disabled person to be dropped off or picked up on a clearway).I live in Otley and there are constant traffic problems on roads at the top of the main street and near to the bus station, often caused by blue badge holders parking bumper to bumper, particularly near bends and junctions, thereby stopping the free-flow of traffic. Because some of the roads are so narrow, H.G.V.'s and buses often can not pass through and the whole town quickly becomes completely blocked. As I said previously, I have nothing against disabled people or the scheme and I do not blame them for using it because it lawful. I just think it's a bad system, that's all.I suppose that I will now have to put on my tin hat and disappear into my bunker for a while. It's just my opinion, that's all and no offence is intended.Ian     No Ian, you are quite right and I agree with you. Cross Gates is the same for cars abandoned all over the place with blue badges slapped on the dashboard seemingly immune to the restriction that they shouldn't cause an obstruction. It's amazing how far away some people will park away from the shopping centre to avoid paying a parking charge whilst displaying a badge that indicates that they can't walk too far....

[chameleon]

'No Ian, you are quite right and I agree with you. Cross Gates is the same for cars abandoned all over the place with blue badges slapped on the dashboard seemingly immune to the restriction that they shouldn't cause an obstruction. It's amazing how far away some people will park away from the shopping centre to avoid paying a parking charge whilst displaying a badge that indicates that they can't walk too far....'I quite agree with you Davey, in fact I have endeavoured to report some whom I personally know (not suspect) are abusing the concession and those in charge turn a blind eye, even when a badge is being used habitually by another family member. Be assured that this is as offenscive to those who substantially rely upon the provission to have some independence and freedom as it is to you and doubtless many others. Changes coming soon to the system will hopefully see some discrepancies removed. (Do consider too, not everyone in a given area will necessarily be going to the same place - or even shopping)

[iansmithofotley]

Hi chameleon,I was referring to yellow, solid, double or broken yellow lines along the side of the road, with appropriate traffic signs indicating parking restrictions. I have always known them as 'clearways'. In Leeds, when they were first introduced, double solid yellow lines meant no parking at all. A single solid yellow line indicated no parking - usually between 8am and 6.30pm and a broken yellow line meant no parking at certain times which was usually 8am until 9.30am and 4.30pm until 6.30pm. I realise that since the introduction of these restrictions in Leeds, which I think was in the late 1960's, traffic volumes have increased manyfold and the traffic laws have had to change accordingly.It reminds me of in the early 1970's when I was a uniform sergeant at Chapeltown Police Station. The superintendent was a man called Les Barnard who was a super bloke and a 'copper's copper', he was also hard as nails despite being not very tall (as an inspector at the old Millgarth Police Station he had been known to vault over the high front desk and get stuck in with his men to sort out any violent or disorderly prisoners). However, his pet thing was 'clearways' and I always had to delegate a specific constable to patrol the clearways on North Street, Regent Street, Sheepscar Street, Chapeltown Road, Harrogate Road and Roundhay Road, etc., etc.Les used to drive around the whole area on his way to work (around 8.30am) and check the clearways himself. If he saw a vehicle illegally parked, without a fixed penalty ticket on it, he would call the sergeant into his office, find out who was on 'clearway duty' and then call the constable into his office for a 24 carat *******ing and he would not accept any excuses.That's why I have always referred to them as 'clearways'.Ian

[Loiner1960]

Mmmmm...... I suppose these scamera's will be on 24 hours a day. Pity the buses don't run like that. Oh and it won't apply to foreign plated cars. Only those on the DVLA database. More Big Brother. I also agree that the lanes are inconsistent. The best example being Woodhouse Lane from the Library to the Hyde Park. Starts as a designated 24 hour bus lane. Then just as it passes Rampart Road it becomes peak times only!Much better idea would be no buses to leave their bus lanes. Seems only fair.

[chameleon]

iansmithofotley wrote: Hi chameleon,I was referring to yellow, solid, double or broken yellow lines along the side of the road, with appropriate traffic signs indicating parking restrictions. I have always known them as 'clearways'. In Leeds, when they were first introduced, double solid yellow lines meant no parking at all. A single solid yellow line indicated no parking - usually between 8am and 6.30pm and a broken yellow line meant no parking at certain times which was usually 8am until 9.30am and 4.30pm until 6.30pm. I realise that since the introduction of these restrictions in Leeds, which I think was in the late 1960's, traffic volumes have increased manyfold and the traffic laws have had to change accordingly.It reminds me of in the early 1970's when I was a uniform sergeant at Chapeltown Police Station. The superintendent was a man called Les Barnard who was a super bloke and a 'copper's copper', he was also hard as nails despite being not very tall (as an inspector at the old Millgarth Police Station he had been known to vault over the high front desk and get stuck in with his men to sort out any violent or disorderly prisoners). However, his pet thing was 'clearways' and I always had to delegate a specific constable to patrol the clearways on North Street, Regent Street, Sheepscar Street, Chapeltown Road, Harrogate Road and Roundhay Road, etc., etc.Les used to drive around the whole area on his way to work (around 8.30am) and check the clearways himself. If he saw a vehicle illegally parked, without a fixed penalty ticket on it, he would call the sergeant into his office, find out who was on 'clearway duty' and then call the constable into his office for a 24 carat *******ing and he would not accept any excuses.That's why I have always referred to them as 'clearways'.Ian Yes Ian, I was trying to say I understood what you meantand, agree with you - I take a pride in trying to do things properly and abhor the never ending examples of a growing lack of respect for others on the road - stationary or moving. As I've said before, like them or not, rules have a purpose and have to be respected and so often it is the very people who create the need for rules, who think they don't apply to them.As for your old 'oppo at Chapel - wish there was more of that attitude these days, so many misdemeanours are not recognised or not felt worth bothering with (a widely held public perception at least).

[chameleon]

Loiner1960 wrote: Mmmmm...... I suppose these scamera's will be on 24 hours a day. Pity the buses don't run like that. Oh and it won't apply to foreign plated cars. Only those on the DVLA database. More Big Brother. I also agree that the lanes are inconsistent. The best example being Woodhouse Lane from the Library to the Hyde Park. Starts as a designated 24 hour bus lane. Then just as it passes Rampart Road it becomes peak times only!Much better idea would be no buses to leave their bus lanes. Seems only fair. Will be interesting to see what happens at night - aren't many of the the city centre routes opened between 10pm and ?7am still?

[tyke bhoy]

chameleon wrote: Will be interesting to see what happens at night - aren't many of the the city centre routes opened between 10pm and ?7am still? The Park Row/City Sq/Boar Lane bus box certainly has hours it doesn;t operate although from memory 23:00 - 06:00 are nearer the mark

[chameleon]

tyke bhoy wrote: chameleon wrote: Will be interesting to see what happens at night - aren't many of the the city centre routes opened between 10pm and ?7am still? The Park Row/City Sq/Boar Lane bus box certainly has hours it doesn;t operate although from memory 23:00 - 06:00 are nearer the mark Thanks tyke bhoy - long tiimr since I've been able to be in town at those times