SKIPTON TO KINGS CROSS

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Fri 21 Jun, 2013 10:10 pm

Can any of the railway enthusiasts explain why the train takes such a devious and strange route from Neville Hill to SkiptonThis train departs LEEDS CITY 07:35 to KINGS X S.O.http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y ... dvancedYou might have to click on advanced to show the full details.

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 21 Jun, 2013 11:01 pm

Brunel wrote: Can any of the railway enthusiasts explain why the train takes such a devious and strange route from Neville Hill to SkiptonThis train departs LEEDS CITY 07:35 to KINGS X S.O.http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y ... dvancedYou might have to click on advanced to show the full details. This doesnt happen anymore,and strangely enough it was for the Harrogate not Skipton,so not sure where this is sourced from.The move was done so that it went through Leeds empty,down past Woodlesford/Normanton/Wakefield Kirkgate and up to Westgate then back into Leeds to collect the crew and catering stock.This put the set in reverse formation as on a saturday morning it (the Harrogate,not the Skipton) would go to Kings Cross from the east end of Leeds via Micklefield/Hambleton.Normally a set doing this departure would be in reverse when it reached Doncaster,but if the set was already in reverse when it left Leeds from the east end (as it would with the Woddlesford/Wakefield Kirkagte route made earlier) then it would be the right way round when it arrived at Doncaster.Does that make sense?

Post by **cnosni** » Fri 21 Jun, 2013 11:03 pm

Just seen that this is for tomorrow.There is loads of engineering this weekend so it must be something to do with this.

Brunel · Post by **Brunel** » Fri 21 Jun, 2013 11:36 pm

Thanks for the info. Sat. Running to time http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y ... 2/advanced

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 22 Jun, 2013 5:02 pm

cnosni wrote: Brunel wrote: Can any of the railway enthusiasts explain why the train takes such a devious and strange route from Neville Hill to SkiptonThis train departs LEEDS CITY 07:35 to KINGS X S.O.http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y ... dvancedYou might have to click on advanced to show the full details. This doesnt happen anymore,and strangely enough it was for the Harrogate not Skipton,so not sure where this is sourced from.The move was done so that it went through Leeds empty,down past Woodlesford/Normanton/Wakefield Kirkgate and up to Westgate then back into Leeds to collect the crew and catering stock.This put the set in reverse formation as on a saturday morning it (the Harrogate,not the Skipton) would go to Kings Cross from the east end of Leeds via Micklefield/Hambleton.Normally a set doing this departure would be in reverse when it reached Doncaster,but if the set was already in reverse when it left Leeds from the east end (as it would with the Woddlesford/Wakefield Kirkagte route made earlier) then it would be the right way round when it arrived at Doncaster.Does that make sense? Me and mrs ravey once caught this service to that there London back in the good old days of GNER, when booking in advance could give you a day in the smoke for the price of a taxi into town. We were quite surprised to find ourselves heading down south via Cross Gates and Garforth but suffered no ill-effects as a result.The return service was via the traditional route, with a planned final destination of Bradford Forster Square, driven with some enthusiasm north of Grantham following a delay behind a failed train. Sadly for those on board intending to travel to the UNESCO City Of Film the service was terminated at Leeds due to late running and they were advised to find a local stopper to complete their journey.

dogduke · Post by **dogduke** » Sat 22 Jun, 2013 5:05 pm

Brunel wrote: Can any of the railway enthusiasts explain why the train takes such a devious and strange route from Neville Hill to SkiptonThis train departs LEEDS CITY 07:35 to KINGS X S.O.http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y ... dvancedYou might have to click on advanced to show the full details. It's 7 years since I finished on the railway but here's my tuppence worth.There is nowhere to stand trains for any length of time,Neville hill,Marsh Lane goods line and Leeds stn all require to be to be kept as clear as possible,so thats probably the early departure from the sidings.The set requires turning because the parent train departs via Hambleton so it arrives KX in the right formation.Running via Kirkgate and Westgate ensures traincrews have knowledge of the diverionary route Leeds to wakefield.There are easier ways to turn the set.The train can't arrive Skipton too soon,HST can only use pfm 2 and the station will be setup with early departing Northern services.Kirkstall loop could be required for S&C freight or Tilcon.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Sat 22 Jun, 2013 5:43 pm

I'm a bit confused about having to have the train running in the right direction. From what I see 5A13 0447 from Neville Hill is booked High Speed Train (HST125) which of course has a running power car both ends????

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 22 Jun, 2013 6:05 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: I'm a bit confused about having to have the train running in the right direction. From what I see 5A13 0447 from Neville Hill is booked High Speed Train (HST125) which of course has a running power car both ends???? It's so the posh folks in 1st class are at the front nearest the exit when it gets to London.

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Sat 22 Jun, 2013 6:23 pm

raveydavey wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: I'm a bit confused about having to have the train running in the right direction. From what I see 5A13 0447 from Neville Hill is booked High Speed Train (HST125) which of course has a running power car both ends???? It's so the posh folks in 1st class are at the front nearest the exit when it gets to London. Oh yes.... But.. Looking at the timings of that train it runs until December. I can imagine them having to turn a set with regard first class once (or every time a new set is allocated regarding exam maintenance) But the train power cars come back to Leeds in the same direction it left, the train has to be the right way round for the next day. I.e the leading power car going is at the back of the train on the return.

Post by **cnosni** » Sat 22 Jun, 2013 6:32 pm

raveydavey wrote: Phill_dvsn wrote: I'm a bit confused about having to have the train running in the right direction. From what I see 5A13 0447 from Neville Hill is booked High Speed Train (HST125) which of course has a running power car both ends???? It's so the posh folks in 1st class are at the front nearest the exit when it gets to London. Well yes and no.Yes so that the 1st class passengers are in the right place but also to reduce delay.The platforms have signs denoting where a particular coach should be so that passengers can be stood where their reservations are.If the set is in reverse then,so to speak,are the passnengers.This increases the dwell time at stations as passengers have to walk from one end to the other to find their reserved seat.Multiply this by the number of stops for the journey,and subsequent journeys,and you start to accumulate considerable delays.There is no where to turn a set at KX,only via Hambleton,at the bridges at Newcastle and if a service runs into Lincoln.Getting the service the right way round is very important,its all about money you see.Now i can hear you saying "Well why dont they announce it on the platforms that the train is in reverse.Two problems with this,firstly they do when a set is in reverse but no passengers seem to listen,and secondly they dont understand what it means,which if i didnt work on the railways i would not either.