extra Long Buses?

Post by **tyke bhoy** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 2:27 pm

Possibly should be in general chat as it is not about a specific vehicle. However, particularly noticeable to me on the A61 but probably elsewhere the road painters have been out with their yellow paint to mark up bus stops on the road surface. Now most of the areas I have seen painted off are big enough to accommodate a small train or a coupkle of bendybus/purple slugs. I know the drivers of these things seem to think they should travel in pairs rather than the 10 minutes or more apart but shouln't we be discouraging that view and/or are we expecting much longer buses to be deployed in and around Leeds.

stodge. · Post by **stodge.** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 3:23 pm

I've just come back from a trip to Hamburg and they've got these extra long bendy slugs there.They're just like ours but with an extra bit in the middle, they've got 2 bends, roundabouts should be interesting, lol.

Post by **chameleon** » Tue 23 Jun, 2009 7:02 pm

tyke bhoy wrote: Possibly should be in general chat as it is not about a specific vehicle. However, particularly noticeable to me on the A61 but probably elsewhere the road painters have been out with their yellow paint to mark up bus stops on the road surface. Now most of the areas I have seen painted off are big enough to accommodate a small train or a coupkle of bendybus/purple slugs. I know the drivers of these things seem to think they should travel in pairs rather than the 10 minutes or more apart but shouln't we be discouraging that view and/or are we expecting much longer buses to be deployed in and around Leeds. Be quite sure, that painting is the death nell for life on those roads as you know it!It marks the arrival very shortly of those blessed over-stretched caterpillars, necessarily, if they are to perform their function of conveying a few people, negotiating the smallest of roads and potentially bringing the consequences of that with it.I have to say that as much as I hate being in the vicinity of one, I doo feel for the drivers - often in a ludicrous situation trying to negotiate the 'every-day road' (not forgetting traffic calming measures which nobody seemed to realise are often only the same distance apart as the bus is long!), and try to be more than fair to them but, I'm affraid there are still one or two who forget how much bus they are dragging behind them/have no intention of giving way when they should/forget to look left as well as right when turning leftfrom a small junction - it is not nice finding one of these rapidly filling the space you are in, particularly when stationary!They are not the best of ideas for estate use me thinks

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 04 Jul, 2009 4:26 pm

These extra long bus stops seem to be appearing throughout the Metro area, not just Leeds, or indeed routes used by the bendy buses / ftr's. Bus stops across the county are also being treated to raised kerbs as well. Even the one near my house where no service buses stop....One thing I have noticed is that Leeds Council (presumably) have put signs on posts at either end of these newly marked bus stops stating "Bus Stop No Parking" or words to that effect. Thats two signs and two posts at every stop. Calderdale council have simply added a "Bus Stop No Parking" sign to the actual bus stop itself. So thats one sign, easily fitted and no posts to be concreted in. Obviously much cheaper and presumably just as legally enforcable?I've also noticed that the ftr's seem to be getting substituted with ordinary buses on a fairly frequent basis now - and if they are then they are driver only operated, no conductor. Given this and First's decision to reduce the frequency of the service, I wonder if Metro are going to reduce the subsidy they pay First to run them?

Phill_dvsn · Post by **Phill_dvsn** » Sat 04 Jul, 2009 6:45 pm

Why do they try fob Leeds off with these useless bendy buses, guided bus ways, and ideas of Trolley buses (they were useless, unsightly, high maintenance when they operated in the few cities daft enough to try them)These are just cheap gimmicks (but cost a lot in actual terms)They do not solve any problem.They got rid of the backloader buses that were fast getting people on and off.They did away with the conductor, buses went one man operation (dreadfully slow loading)Now they reduce the height of the bus for no obvious reason, instead they make it longer. They have to pay the wages of three people instead of one. They carry no extra passengers (possibly less than a double decker)They slow traffic down, there very inflexible. There route availability must be pretty low.Where is the logic in this?There throwing good money after bad, in years to come they will have to do away with these tin pot idea half measures. They will have to introduce the much needed supertram we should already have at an esculated price.It's just a shame they throw away millions, while not solving any problem in the mean time.As far as i know Leeds is the biggest municipal city in the U.K without any form of light rail transport.Leeds really sucks at times, it will never achieve the city of the North status it claims it is pursuing!

Post by **chameleon** » Sat 04 Jul, 2009 7:57 pm

Phill_dvsn wrote: Why do they try fob Leeds off with these useless bendy buses, guided bus ways, and ideas of Trolley buses (they were useless, unsightly, high maintenance when they operated in the few cities daft enough to try them)These are just cheap gimmicks (but cost a lot in actual terms)They do not solve any problem.They got rid of the backloader buses that were fast getting people on and off.They did away with the conductor, buses went one man operation (dreadfully slow loading)Now they reduce the height of the bus for no obvious reason, instead they make it longer. They have to pay the wages of three people instead of one. They carry no extra passengers (possibly less than a double decker)They slow traffic down, there very inflexible. There route availability must be pretty low.Where is the logic in this?There throwing good money after bad, in years to come they will have to do away with these tin pot idea half measures. They will have to introduce the much needed supertram we should already have at an esculated price.It's just a shame they throw away millions, while not solving any problem in the mean time.As far as i know Leeds is the biggest municipal city in the U.K without any form of light rail transport.Leeds really sucks at times, it will never achieve the city of the North status it claims it is pursuing! Speaking of 'The Vission for Leeds' in another thread Phill, I am firmly of the opinion that these things too were somebody's dream....and then there is our world - the real one!Best thing is to leave them out in the rain and see if they shrink

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Mon 06 Jul, 2009 12:17 am

I get into frequent discussions, sadly sometimes fiercely aggressive, about the good and bad features of various types of bus. While I'm always happy to discuss I think I can claim, after 44 years in most aspects of the industry, to know what I am saying.My opinion of the Bendi-bus concept, and the ludicrous (nay sadly comical) ftr or "purple slug" application in the Leeds area is not for detailing here.One thing above all else though leaves me frustrated and fuming - and that is the final nail in the coffin of punctual reliable running - the operation of one person routes with single doorway buses - this is even more pronounced since the practice of alllowing two enormous buggies to partially block (illegally) the gangway at the very worst point, i.e. the bottom of the staircase !! Buses with a separate exit door are absolutely essential for any form of progress to be made, and this has become even more the case since complicated and time consuming sales of various bargain tickets has arisen - many of which should be sold only off the bus (travel centres, retailers, hotels etc as is the norm on the Continent)Much fuss is made about the "danger" of alighting accidents from vehicles with centre and/or rear exits. In my view this is manipulative cynical nonsense. I drove large dual doorway double and single deckers of the "Leeds" design for years without a single incident ever - if you do the job properly there is no danger at all, as mirror observation of the exit is perfectly adequate even in darkness and bad weather. The handsome and functional Leeds City Transport type, of which there were hundreds, were a classic design with 45 seats upstairs, 33 seats downstairs, luggage space galore, and NO standing - and superb rapid passenger flow on and off. Bradford City Transport's own idea was equally commendable with the exit door just behind the front wheels and no seats, but plenty of luggage and passenger circulating area, between the two doorways.Now, a very sad but classic illustration of the farsical and widespread official view of this question. Not too long ago, a modern FirstBus double decker with single front entrance and exit pulled into Leeds Bus Station and unloaded. A poor old chap fell under the bus as it reversed off the stand and was fatally crushed beneath the wheels. Bear in mind that this was the "ideal" type of bus with only ONE "safe" doorway. The Company's reaction with, I believe some Metro persuasion, was to send away the fleet of dual doorway buses which had been assisting punctuality on the Otley Road and other routes and have the centre exits removed. Where on Earth I ask is the logic in that ??So just to re-cap - sorry to go on so - the ideal bus is the two door double decker which takes up only moderate road space and can negotiate most roads even where bad car parking is prevalent - let us forget the concept of sixty foot long "Beeston Bendies" and pompous "ftr"s seating only around 55 and 43 respectively !!

Uno Hoo · Post by **Uno Hoo** » Tue 07 Jul, 2009 9:10 am

Well said, Blakey.I'm a frequent traveller on London buses, now that I hold the magic pass - saves pounds by not using the Underground. London tickets have to be pre-bought, and there's a machine at the stop. I don't know whether they can be bought elsewhere, as I don't need to enquire. Loading is therefore quite fast, and the separate exits mean rapid unloading, although quite a lot of passengers seem to get off via the front (loading) door as well. The main problem remains sheer volume of traffic, despite the congestion charge, along with that nationwide curse, on-street parking, which obstructs traffic flow. You're right about sale of special tickets causing frustration on our local buses. Not too long ago Day Rovers could be bought in newsagents etc, so why not now? Firstbus having to pay commission may be one factor. Exit doors to centre or rear would assist loading time greatly. Are bendibuses really going to become the norm? Watched one in York as it manoeuvred a tight left hand turn. It managed, but only by backing up other traffic a long way, thereby inconveniencing everyone. I thought they'd been tried and found wanting in Leeds/Bradford.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Tue 07 Jul, 2009 12:14 pm

Thank you indeed UH - and sadly there is one other very major factor in serious delay to bus services, and I hardly dare mention it, and nor does anyone in authority seemingly. I refer to the very flawed concept that "the customer is always right." This may well be true in department stores and restaurants, but it is certainly NOT true when travelling on an omnibus which, as we all know, is Latin meaning "For all." Therefore the bus service can only succeed if everyone plays their part or at least makes a reasonable attempt to do so. Common practices, and there are many, include not knowing or caring what time the bus is due, no money or passes ready, running out of side streets as the already late bus is pulling away, showing screwed up wet faded multi journey tickets whiuch have ceased to be valid etc etc. Then, having caused that delay, standing in the gangway when there are seats all over the bus and causing even further obstruction to progress - "Oh I'm only going a couple of stops." The oft heard complaint that "he/she saw that man running - they won't give you a minute" is very unjust - that "minute" can and does turn into many minutes when half a dozen green traffic lights are now red, and even more latecomers with no money ready are strolling out of wherever along the route.It might be thought from this that I was one of those miseries who hated the job - I was not - I loved the job and the assorted shifts and the vehicles (most of them) and dealing with the public, but even I was increasingly tested to the limit as unrealistic managements sheltered in their glass towers and insisted that "The customer is always right."If anyone would like a live demonstration of this viewpoint, I would recommend a trip on the Leeds service 56 from Whinmoor to Moor Grange during term time - it has to be seen to be believed, and it is nothing short of a miracle that any vehicle completes a journey the same day. Sad but very true - I am one of the regular victims of this mobile farce - "The Turquoise Line" - I rest my case Mi' Lud !!

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Tue 07 Jul, 2009 9:14 pm

BLAKEY wrote: If anyone would like a live demonstration of this viewpoint, I would recommend a trip on the Leeds service 56 from Whinmoor to Moor Grange during term time - it has to be seen to be believed, and it is nothing short of a miracle that any vehicle completes a journey the same day. Sad but very true - I am one of the regular victims of this mobile farce - "The Turquoise Line" - I rest my case Mi' Lud !! I know what you mean Blakey - I live near the other end of the 56 route and it's not uncommon to come down the stairs from a near empty upper deck to try and get off at Crossgates and find the platform rammed with two or more prams and halfwits stood up and refusing to "move down the bus".Back to the ftr's though - did you know that when fully loaded, more than half the passengers on board are actually standing? This is in part due to the appallingly poor use of space in the layout of the seating. They carry no more passengers than a double decker, but in less comfort and using twice the roadspace. Very much a case of the "Emperors New Buses" I think.