Eastgate subway?

[LS1]

That's interesting. I always thought that it was built that way because civil disruption was expected , and police stations (not just Leeds) were being built as defensive positions

Fear of going off topic, but if you look at the old Google streetview pics of Millgarth Police Station, on the north side there is the walkway that leads to nowhere. The east and west sides are fenced off. (see attached)
This was presumably to connect up with the other raised walkways in City Square. Going even further off topic, Edmonton in Canada has an integrated walkway system between a lot of the buildings in the centre due to the cold weather. You don't even have to go outside to get across the city!

[mark1978]

Less relevant still, but in Coventry you used to be able to (maybe still can) walk across the whole city centre on a series of interconnected rooftop carparks. Don't think that was particularly by design though.

I've had a look at a bit of the Victoria Gate planning docs (admittedly not all of it because it's absolutely vast), specially the past of the D&A statement that deals with the history of the site, and there's nothing on the subway. However the focus is largely on the south side (ie the part that's now been built) so that's not a big surprise.

Seems very plausible that the original underground carpark plan was pushed aside by changing circumstances and needs, decreasing amounts of money being available etc. You could tell as much from the quality of the buildings on the southern side of Eastgate as was - they were pretty basic in comparison with the fairly grand ones still standing on the north side (although changing fashions may have played a part too considering the length of time they were built over).

In 1955 Union Street Baths and the old Millgarth were still going strong, so I don't imagine they had a clear picture of what the area was ultimately going to look like, and if they did it's not a big surprise if it changed over time. It took something like 30 years for them to get both sides of Eastgate finished, and I bet even then the open car park was supposed to be a temporary plan.

Oh well, at least that area is no longer at the mercy of big property companies who buy up land and sit on it for decades, letting fine buildings rot till they feel like doing something with them... oh, hang on.

[mark1978]

Having said all that... It would be very interesting to see how far they got with the original idea. Is it just bare earth behind those boards? Or the start of some sort of tunnel? Maybe even some more Victorian basements like the ones that were uncovered nearby when they were digging down for the Leeds Pipes network!

[tyke bhoy]

I think JMA and LS1 are correct. There is a discussion on another thread on here about the "Walkway in the sky" and the outside of Millgarth and the surrounds of City Square and Bond Street Centre (now mainly in Trinity) were the only places it came to anything like fruition.

I believe the Union Street baths closed mid-late 60s but don't know how far in advance the closure was planned. The car park that replaced it was almost certaintly meant as a short term measure. It gave "unmade" a bad name being very uneven (not just because of the slope) with bits of what were presuably the walls/foundations of the old baths protruding out of the ground in places. As I said it was pure speculation on my part as to why the Underground car park never came about and even in where it was intended but the newspaper clipping did suggest south of the southern side of Eastgate.

Also, time flies JMA. I believe we are rapidly approaching the 10th anniversary (this year) of Millgarth closing so as an observation rather than cririticism "recent" is in the eye of the beholder

[LS1]

Having said all that... It would be very interesting to see how far they got with the original idea. Is it just bare earth behind those boards? Or the start of some sort of tunnel? Maybe even some more Victorian basements like the ones that were uncovered nearby when they were digging down for the Leeds Pipes network!

If you look at how the north side of Eastgate was developed, the present buildings are built on top of previous buildings that fronted onto Lady Lane. Presumably the original layout of Lady Lane was kept, and the new, much wider buildings stretched further south to front onto the newly created Eastgate obliterating Virginia Street, but kept the rear line along the original Lady Lane.

The south side of the of Eastgate looks to have been (eventually) built to what was the south part of Nelson Street. So what we now have is a much wider Eastgate, with the road covering what was north side of Nelson Street and the south side of Virginia Street (also completely removing Back Virginia Street which was in-between the two.

It would make sense then, depending on how far they excavated to build the north side of Eastgate, that original cellars are under the current buildings.

Hopefully the attached makes some sense!

[Brunel]

The new!! MILLGARTH, was constructed so that it spanned across the course of the Gledhow/Meanwood beck.

[Leodian]

The mention of possible cellars under the buildings on the north side of Eastgate reminded me of this photo that I took on July 14 2014 that shows what seem likely to be cellars under the demolished south side buildings seen from near the Millgarth Street area. The identical bookends buildings on the still currently there north side are seen.

DemolitionEastgateSeenByMillgarthStreetAreaJuly142014.jpg (211.8 KiB) Viewed 282 times

[Leodian]

The new!! MILLGARTH, was constructed so that it spanned across the course of the Gledhow/Meanwood beck.

The spanning across the beck is presumably what is seen in this photo during the demolition of Millgarth Police Station that I took from the Dyer Street area on December 2 2014.

MillgarthPoliceStationDemolitionFromDyerStreetAreaDec022014.jpg (164.41 KiB) Viewed 278 times

[mhoulden]

There was something about having to strengthen the floor of Millgarth police station during the Yorkshire Ripper investigation because of the sheer number of files. I'm not sure why they couldn't just store them somewhere else.

Millgarth to City Square is quite a long way. Would the elevated walkways have covered the whole distance or would they have come to ground level at strategic points? The old Trinity shopping centre might have been another part of it.

[mark1978]

Having said all that... It would be very interesting to see how far they got with the original idea. Is it just bare earth behind those boards? Or the start of some sort of tunnel? Maybe even some more Victorian basements like the ones that were uncovered nearby when they were digging down for the Leeds Pipes network!

If you look at how the north side of Eastgate was developed, the present buildings are built on top of previous buildings that fronted onto Lady Lane. Presumably the original layout of Lady Lane was kept, and the new, much wider buildings stretched further south to front onto the newly created Eastgate obliterating Virginia Street, but kept the rear line along the original Lady Lane.

The south side of the of Eastgate looks to have been (eventually) built to what was the south part of Nelson Street. So what we now have is a much wider Eastgate, with the road covering what was north side of Nelson Street and the south side of Virginia Street (also completely removing Back Virginia Street which was in-between the two.

It would make sense then, depending on how far they excavated to build the north side of Eastgate, that original cellars are under the current buildings.

Hopefully the attached makes some sense!

Thanks very much for that map!

As the 'subway' entrance is opposite the bottom of Templar Street, that would put it in line with what was Prussia Street. So presumably they would have needed to dig straight through whatever was left of the cellars of those buildings, and said cellars are perhaps what's still there on the other side of the boards.

Wonder why they chose that spot - if they'd placed it a bit further down, in line with Pollard's Yard, that looks like it would have been a much easier digging job!