Victoriagate/Eastgate Quarter Development

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 12:20 am

tyke bhoy wrote: Crazy Jane wrote: Merrion Centre i'm sure had empty units, plus the current state of the market. The Georgian arcade in the Merrion has spaces but then many of those were engineered by not renewing leases (the Tap and Spile fell victim to that and its still vacant 10+ years on) other than that the merrion Centre is full excluding the Merrion market. Don't forget the Odeon Cinema in the Merrion Centre - only open for thirteen years from new, and has lain empty for many decades. That is an enormous unit and its fate beggars belief !!

Post by **cnosni** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 1:42 pm

electricaldave wrote: I notice that the artist impressions do not seem to focus much at all on the view up the Headrow from Eastgate.It appears to me that the lower Eastgate buildings are to be demolished, and since this was designed to stand as a pair of 'bookcases' this is really terrible.Take a look at this,http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... AY=FULLThe drawings I have seen on the net do not make it clear what happens to the buildings on the right, except somehow there will be a piazza in front of the Templar Church which will be much more accessible - the word the designers use is 'permeable'. which appear to be code for knocking down a number of significant buildings.In this picture, try to imagine the location of the proposed piazza,http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... Y=FULLThis appear to me to mean that at the very least, the whole centre of that building will go.It seems to me that the left side buildings will be completely demolished in favour of some large amorphous blobThe plans and artist impressions do not make it totally clear, is this intentional I think that to lose such a familiar Leeds sight looking up the Headrwo from Eastgate might prove a bit controversial and maybe thats why it is not clear.I have just watched the video view of it, and its true the left building is removed and in its place is a large horrible blob - this would be the John Lewis store - I don't know who imagines this is a good idea, I certainly don't, maybe it looks ok on a little model, but these things have a way of looking awful when scaled up, and especially with a few decades added - the YEP buidling is a good example. looks like a nice building from a model view, but the reality was pretty awful.It also means that whole place is going to be just one corporate lump, with no local character at all, I agree that lots of the area is in need of development, but when you consider what lies within the proposed plan, from the Templar houses, through to the workhouse and up to the chancery bar on Vicar lane, it all gets lost and the past is utterly erased.This part of Leeds is quite important, look on the old maps and you start to see certain land holdings the Ley Lands etc - it will all lose its relevance.There will be a huge amount of archeology under all that lot, and probably an number of bell pits, but the worst thing is that this new development will have no reference, its not like you will be able to walk along the lines of the old streets, or even the old grid plan - it all goes.Seems that there is a body of market traders and advocates who are not keen on this, and see it as a threat, however it is sad to say but my view is that Leeds markets have been in decline for some time - perhaps this decline has been deliberate, it would not surprise me.http://kirkgatemarket.wordpress.com/ The "Hoagys/Yorkshire Hussars bookend would have been demolished for supertram,and the buildings behind it that range up on the south side Eastgate towards Headrow are not a mirror of those on the north side,as though they were planned to be a mirror version it never happened,and cheaper less impressive buildings were put in place.The "blob"for John Lewis is exactly that,a blob to illustrate the general position of the building.None of the renders can be seen as what the buildings will actually look like,its merely a representation,however there is also the possibilty that in this age of austerirty that the final building may not be much better.Im generally in favour of the development,though it has been downsized (the development was also going to include the buildings between the A58 flyover,Bridge Street,Eastgate A61 it is still a substantial investment in what has been a run down area since the 1970's.I am in two minds about the gap that will appear in the north range of Eastgate,which will open up Lady Lane Chapel onto a public space and then a road through towards the direction of the market.To have a large open space is a great idea,but the demolition of those buildings is a shame,you cant have your cake and eat it i suppose.One thing that is a dissapointment is that they will not be pedestrianising the bottom of Eastgate to include the old petrol station and its (hit and miss) fountain and statue of Arthur Aaron.This could easily have been done with little effect to traffic flow as there would be no need to take traffic up Eastgate and Bridge Street could be accessed from under the A58 flyover side then traffic could have just passed in front of Quarry Hill in both directions without the need to negotiate a roundabout.The amount of investment into the city,with Trinity East/West,the arena and hopefully eventually this development will return much needed employment,though these will be mainly service industry jobs in retail/leisure we have to remember that on the whole the area in which these developments are being made are that particular sector,that is retail and leisure.

electricaldave · Post by **electricaldave** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 1:46 pm

Thinking over why the markets have declined, and why the council have decided to go ahead with this scheme.Shopping habits have changed so much, time was when everyone got on the bus, and got off somewhere at the edge of town, and made their way to the main bus station, shopping as they went. You would get to the market and guy your frsh produce, which was quite heavy, but the walk to the bus station was short so it sort of worked.Now we all have cars, or most shoppers do, we are time poor so the idea of spending Saturday wandering around town carrying lots of heavy fresh produce does not appeal when there is so much else to do, and so little time to do it.It is worth it to many folk to go out of town or to the supermarket and park for free, and do all their shopping in an hour or so during the week - Friday evening is generally a madhouse and to be avoided in supermakets.So now you have Saturday free and if you are going boutique shopping, then Leeds Markets probably will not have what you want, and of course there is all the hassle of parking, along with the costs, and perhaps you are mainly browsing anyway.That lower end of Eastgate has not been popular for a long time, the car park at Milgarth has been an eyesore for generations - (wonder what they will do about the water storage tanks under it)The area around upper Vicar Lane has been in need of development for 30 years or more.All the same, in terms of historical perspective, all we get is the Templar Chapel preserved and turned into a coffee bar, and a bit of the old Eastgate buildings preserved, and I still don't see much more business coming into the Leeds Markets because the shopping trend just does not work out that way.If you go to Brimingham and the Bull ring centre, or up to Newcastle to that centre by the Earl Grey monument, this is pretty much how I see this development going - once you are in those places you could be almost anywhere, there is nothing local about them.Generally speaking the developers are always going to have their work cut out, because the main shopping area, or 'town' we Loiners would call it has tended to be on the lower side of the Headrow, and everything above it has had to work to attract custom, and the further you went down the Headrow, the more this shows.Perhaps this will bring more footfall through the Grand Arcade and that area in general, maybe folk will roll down the hill from the Merrion centre through Grand.I struggle to imagine how all those units can be occupied, especially with the trinity development bringing up to 100 shops.I suppose with the Leeds Arena also undergoing construction it does make Leeds appear dynamic.Anyone have any alternative ideas for the Eastgate scheme?

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 2:04 pm

Hopefully the Eastgate development will not start with demolition then simply stop like the Westfield Broadway development did in Bradford. On a seperate thing I have a feeling that it will not be long (if it has not already started) that developers will be thinking about the Duncan Street/Lower Briggate general area.

jim · Post by **jim** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 3:47 pm

Am I alone in believing that the major attraction of Leeds as a shopping centre was for years the fact that it was so compact? The vast majority of it was contained within The Headrow, Vicar Lane, Duncan Street/Boar Lane, and Albion Street, with the Market and lower Kirkgate as a kind of bargain price adjunct.People came from all over because everything was within relatively easy walking distance. From the St John's and Merrion Centres onwards, developers have continually worked towards stretching the previous boundaries, creating an ever larger space that might at first sight appear to be a more desirable shopping area. Unfortunately the baby seems to have been thrown out with the bathwater in that it has then become as unwieldy and too much to visit in one trip as the shopping areas of all our major competitors.Sometimes less is more, and I think this could well apply to Leeds.

Post by **chameleon** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 6:19 pm

jim wrote: Am I alone in believing that the major attraction of Leeds as a shopping centre was for years the fact that it was so compact? The vast majority of it was contained within The Headrow, Vicar Lane, Duncan Street/Boar Lane, and Albion Street, with the Market and lower Kirkgate as a kind of bargain price adjunct.People came from all over because everything was within relatively easy walking distance. From the St John's and Merrion Centres onwards, developers have continually worked towards stretching the previous boundaries, creating an ever larger space that might at first sight appear to be a more desirable shopping area. Unfortunately the baby seems to have been thrown out with the bathwater in that it has then become as unwieldy and too much to visit in one trip as the shopping areas of all our major competitors.Sometimes less is more, and I think this could well apply to Leeds. Since the Unitary Development Plan of the early 70's Jim, there has been an intention to slide or expand thee retail sctor southwards. Slowly and quietly, almost unnoticed this is happening, I doubt anything will stop it.

Post by **chameleon** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 6:46 pm

Mentioned before but suddenly coming to the forefront, could clear another bit of the area to further development. Very close to the outside market the Council have said could be incorprated into a covered area...... Watch that space!http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... _1_3556292

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 6:59 pm

Especially as West Yorkshire Police have gone on record now and clearly stated that once the new Divisional HQ is built off Elland Road, Millgarth will be sold off and a new smaller base found for the City Centre NPT (Brotherton House, perhaps?).So that's another piece in the jigsaw of land surrounding the development on Eastgate that will be up for grabs. (EDIT: sorry Davey - the link didn't paste beore I posted Your comments fit very well. chameleon).

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Mon 11 Jul, 2011 8:52 am

exploringleeds wrote: I'll miss noodle shopping in Chinatown, such as it was. I measure productivity in bowls of noodles consumed. Lets face it it wasn't really a china town.... All that will have gone is the Luck Dragon and the supermarket of which there are now much more in Leeds than there were before..... Noodle shopping should be a dream now!

Leodian · Post by **Leodian** » Wed 10 Apr, 2013 7:49 pm

It is reported on page 22 of the YEP today (April 10 2013) that "Leeds's £130 million Eastgate retail quarter has a new name. From today the highly anticipated shopping and leisure area...will be known as Victoria Gate".