Crown and Fleece

Post by **chameleon** » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 11:24 pm

Geordie-exile wrote: They don't appear to have gone bankrupt. If you do a search, the company is still filing accounts. The appear to be registered both as a plumbing business and also 'letting of own property'. So that could be the property in question.http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/i ... lumbing%29 As a third party information provider, they may well not be up to date with the most durrent status Geordie. Later: Yes, they are still live at Companies House

LS1 · Post by **LS1** » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 9:07 am

Geordie-exile wrote: They don't appear to have gone bankrupt. If you do a search, the company is still filing accounts. The appear to be registered both as a plumbing business and also 'letting of own property'. So that could be the property in question.http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/i ... lumbing%29 It is. They let the Buslingthorpe Lane property out, or at least did, to some sort of quango. With recent cuts it may now be empty. They are desperate to sell it as the senior partner (the father) is wanting to retire and also it's not in the best of areas and they can't let it all out. I wasn't aware that they wouldn't let the skulls be moved though, I spoke to him and he was very amenable, albeit he though I wanted to buy the building!The do hide a secret behind them in there present resting place though!

String o' beads · Post by **String o' beads** » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 11:29 am

I think I know what you mean there LS1! Anyway, there are mentions of the property in the Chapeltown development plans but it does seem to be a white elephant - just a little bit too far out of the town centre, and it would need vastly updating to attract any modern business.I would have thought the land it stands on though would be valuable.

Kirk Gate · Post by **Kirk Gate** » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 4:10 pm

We have managed to put together the Licensee list for the pub from 1817 to 1930 thanks to the forum members help.The earliest Licensing Register reference is 1874 c/o Christian, the earlier references are from the chronology posted on earlier threads.The only significant gap appears between 1854 and 1860 where Thomas Walker is listed from 1846 -1853 prior to William Stead who first appears in 1861 to1873.Given John Ainley is recorded between 1826 -1844 it may be that Thomas Walker held the Licence for circa 15 years ?Could anyone point me to a reference source to try and confirm the Licensee between 1854-1860?Thanks.Kirk GatePS The Dysons are still active property owners and I am hopeful of their help even if they do not still own the sculls building!

drapesy · Post by **drapesy** » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 5:56 pm

A small point - The word is 'Skull' not 'Scull' , in this instance, Kirk Gate- I'd hate you to commision signs and then have to have them redone!! I spoke to the owner a couple of years ago, Mr Dyson(I forget his first name), and he told me he was not at all interested in helping, that he had no affinity to Leeds and did not even like the place! So please don't get your hopes up too much!More details are on the original Skulls thread not sure which page.

liits · Post by **liits** » Thu 01 Dec, 2011 12:50 pm

cnosni wrote: General history of the Crown/Crown and Fleece until 18341817 DirectoryCrown Inn,Assembly Court,Call Lane Jacob Wilshire,Victualler.1818 DirectoryCrown Inn,Assembly Court,J Wilshire1823 DirectoryCrown Inn,Assembly Court,William Harrison.1826 DirectoryCrown Inn,John Ainley,3 Crown Street.1834 DirectoryCrown and Fleece,No 3 Crown Street,John Ainley.So assembley Court became Crown Street between 1823 and 1826.The Crown became the Crown and Fleece between 1826 and 1834. To fill in some of the Trade Directory gaps from the information posted by Cnosni through until 1872....Directory LicenseeBaines & Newsome 1834 John AinleyAinley [b.1786 ?, Yorkshire]. The 1841 census records him living at the premises with his wife, Sarah [b.1791], Hannah Beaumont [b.1786] living on independent means, possibly a lodger, Name illegible, Male [b.1786], Ann Clough [b.1826] & Elizabeth Greaves [b.1826] both possibly domestic servants. By the time of the 1851 Census he is living at Brunswick Terrace with his wife and Hannah Audsley [b.1833], a domestic servant. His occupation is given as Inn Keeper. Although the name of the premises is not given on the census, it is the Brunswick Arms [which survived well into the 60’s].Baines & Newsome 1839 John AinleyWhite’s 1842 John AinleyWhite’s 1845 John AinleyBaines & Newsome 1849/50 T WalkerWalker [b.1801 Holbeck, Leeds]. The 1851 Census records him as a widower living at the premises with his daughter Sarah [b.1827 Holbeck, Leeds], a domestic servant and a visitor to the premises.By the time of the 1861 census he is living with his second wife, Rachel [b.1815 Marske by Sea, Middlesborough], her daughter Elizabeth [b.1850, Farnley, Leeds] at the Nag’s Head, Farnley Hill / Stonebridge Lane. He dies sometime between then and 1870 as his wife is recorded as the Licensee of the Nag’s Head through until 1874.Slade & Roebuck 1851 T WalkerWhite’s 1853 T WalkerWhite’s 1857 Thomas WalkerWhite’s 1858 Thomas WalkerWhite’s 1861 W SteadJones’ 1863 Not listedWhite’s 1866 William SteadWhite’s 1870 William SteadPorter’s 1872 William Stead

Kirk Gate · Post by **Kirk Gate** » Fri 02 Dec, 2011 2:50 pm

Thanks for the signwriting tip Drapesy. Clearly my mind is on rowing not anatomy!The comments on Dyson do not surprise me but I will be coming across the family on a regular basis and can now keep the issue live.Thanks again.

Kirk Gate · Post by **Kirk Gate** » Fri 02 Dec, 2011 3:04 pm

This is the Licensing list for the C&F so far from the various postings. Looking at the blanks we seem to have all the names listed but not the transfer dates. We are now looking at the old maps and deeds to try and date the building1817 Jacob Wilshire1818 Jacob Wilshire1819 1820 1821 1822 1823 William Harrison1824 1825 1826 John Ainley1827 John Ainley1828 John Ainley1829 John Ainley1830 John Ainley1831 John Ainley1832 John Ainley1833 John Ainley1834 John Ainley1835 1836 John Ainley1837 John Ainley1838 John Ainley1839 John Ainley1840 John Ainley1841 John Ainley1842 John Ainley1843 John Ainley1844 John Ainley1845 1846 Thomas Walker1847 Thomas Walker1848 Thomas Walker1849 Thomas Walker1850 Thomas Walker1851 Thomas Walker1852 Thomas Walker1853 Thomas Walker1854 1855 1856 1857 Thomas Walker1858 Thomas Walker1859 1860 1861 William Stead1862 William Stead1863 William Stead1864 William Stead1865 William Stead1866 William Stead1867 William Stead1868 William Stead1869 William Stead1870 William Stead1871 William Stead1872 William Stead1873 William Stead1874 12/02/1874 Margaret Stead1875 Margaret Stead1876 Margaret Stead1877 Margaret Stead1878 05/12/1878 Henry Morton1879 Henry Morton1880 Henry Morton1881 Henry Morton1882 Henry Morton1883 Henry Morton1884 Henry Morton1885 Henry Morton1886 Henry Morton1887 Henry Morton1888 Henry Morton1889 09/08/1889 Mrs Fanny Molineaux1890 Mrs Fanny Molineaux1891 Mrs Fanny Molineaux1892 23/09/1892 Betty Barraclough1893 08/12/1893 William Dudden Lovell1894 1895 06/12/1895 Robert Charles Railey Kirk1896 25/09/1896 John Whitaker1897 John Whitaker1898 09/12/1898 Caroline Sharp Whitaker1899 Caroline Sharp Whitaker1900 04/05/00 George Whitaker1901 George Whitaker1902 17/11/02 David Thornton Molyneaux1903 David Thornton Molyneaux1904 David Thornton Molyneaux1905 15/11/05 Nelly Cloy 1906 29/04/06 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1906 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1907 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1908 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1909 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1910 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1911 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1912 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1913 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1914 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1915 Mrs Fanny Greenwood 15/08/15 Mrs Fanny Greenwood 1916 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1917 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1918 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1919 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1920 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1921 Mrs Fanny Greenwood1922 08/09/22 Jack Hartley1923 Jack Hartley1924 Jack Hartley1925 Jack Hartley1926 Jack Hartley1927 10/03/29 Mrs Clara Holloway1928 Mrs Clara Holloway1929 07/03/30 Mrs Clara Holloway1930 05/04/30 John Edward Rhodes

drapesy · Post by **drapesy** » Fri 02 Dec, 2011 11:30 pm

Kirk Gate wrote: Thanks for the signwriting tip Drapesy. Clearly my mind is on rowing not anatomy!The comments on Dyson do not surprise me but I will be coming across the family on a regular basis and can now keep the issue live.Thanks again. Best of luck - I really hope you do achieve this .

Post by **chameleon** » Fri 02 Dec, 2011 11:45 pm

Kirk Gate wrote: Thanks for the signwriting tip Drapesy. Clearly my mind is on rowing not anatomy!The comments on Dyson do not surprise me but I will be coming across the family on a regular basis and can now keep the issue live.Thanks again. That's encouraging Kirk Gate - perhaps if the questions are asked often enough.....?