Crown and Fleece

Si · Post by Si » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 1:16 pm

cnosni wrote: Photos of the Crown and Fleece,originally posted by Drapesy and Tasahttp://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Messages.aspx ... e=0&#22212 Thanks Chris!!! I just spent ages looking through the skulls thread to page 40 to find those pics to add to this thread! PS Wasn't the second one posted by Geordie-exile?PPS Going by Liits' post, Tasa's pic can be dated to between 1902 and 1905 going by the Molineaux sign. The second pic looks to be from the same time, as nothing's changed. This also means that David T Molineaux had the Crown & Fleece and the Bay Horse at the same time (1905.) Perhaps he had other pubs and was proud of his empire, hence the reason for displaying his name on them so prominently?

Kirk Gate · Post by **Kirk Gate** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 4:40 pm

Thanks to everyone that has picked up on this thread and submitted contributions in response to my weekend post on researching the pub. So far it seems that we will be able to list virtually all the Licensee's from the earliest recorded entry.It also seems Dysons (Jeweller?) occupied between 1930 and 1974. I have some tenancy records from the mid 1980's so the only missing decade at the the moment appears to be mid 70's to 80's if anyone can help?The earliest photo I have seen is circa 1904 where Landlord Molyneaux is advertised on the print. If anyone knows of any earlier photos or sketches then please post ?Kirk Gate

String o' beads · Post by **String o' beads** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 4:54 pm

Opinion is divided on whether it was the Crown Fisheries at that time, or whether the Crown sign was above a wallpaper shop.I seem to recall it was the former. Here's the relevant part of the thread:http://www.secretleeds.com/forum/Messag ... eadID=1051

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 5:01 pm

"Licensing Register 25th September 1896 John [Henry] WhitakerBorn about 1869, Leeds. The 1881 Census records him living with his parents, older sister and a Domestic Servant at the Swan with Two Necks public house, Waterloo Road, Leeds. The 1891 Census records him living at 56A Waterloo Road, Hunslet with his wife, Caroline [born 1868, Leeds whom he married on 12th October 1887, St Oswald’s, Guiseley, Yorks] and their daughter Nelly, [born 1888, Leeds] and a domestic servant. His employment is given as Cab Proprietor. The 1901 census records him as the publican at the Boy and Barrel Hotel, Westgate in Bradford where his is living with his daughter. He is recorded as a widower. His wife succeeded the license [of the Crown & Fleece] from him in December 1899 and held it until May 1900."taken with my discovery of the bankruptcy of John Whitaker in 1899 (see skulls thread) there may have been a bit of "skullduggery" going on here.he is declared bankrupt in September 1899, and she then takes over the licence ,which makes me think this could have been done as a way of avoiding paying debtors!

Steve Jones · Post by **Steve Jones** » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 5:03 pm

?The earliest photo I have seen is circa 1904 where Landlord Molyneaux is advertised on the print. If anyone knows of any earlier photos or sketches then please post ?Kirk Gate see the skulls resource thread for earlier photo Kirkgate plus more information and maps.I added my discovery of John Whitaker going bankrupt and the Grade 2 listing of part of the property to the Skulls thread yesterday.

Si · Post by Si » Mon 28 Nov, 2011 5:37 pm

Kirk Gate wrote: It also seems Dysons (Jeweller?) occupied between 1930 and 1974. I have some tenancy records from the mid 1980's so the only missing decade at the the moment appears to be mid 70's to 80's if anyone can help?Kirk Gate It was Ion Dyson's, a plumbers' merchant. Their name is still there, painted on a gable end of the former Crown and Fleece, visible from the Call Lane entrance to Crown Court. They are responsible for moving the skulls to Buslingthorpe Lane in 1974. Their latest recorded registered office is in Lower Dunsforth, York.Are you sure you've read the Skulls thread, Kirk Gate?

Kirk Gate · Post by **Kirk Gate** » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 3:20 pm

Si,Thanks for the correction ( I'm suffering from information overload!) I'd forgotten about the Dyson's sign on the gable and not put two and two together about the skulls!However, the best bit on your post is the Dyson link with Lower Dunsforth as this family are known to me but I was not aware of their connection with Crown Street!Now looking forward to a very interesting evening in the Angler to discuss the return of the sculls.Many thanks for this gem of info!Kirk Gate

Si · Post by Si » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 4:04 pm

Kirk Gate wrote: Si, ...the best bit on your post is the Dyson link with Lower Dunsforth as this family are known to me but I was not aware of their connection with Crown Street!Now looking forward to a very interesting evening in the Angler to discuss the return of the sculls.Many thanks for this gem of info!Kirk Gate Now there's a coincidence! Good luck, Kirk Gate. I think several people on here have tried talking to them about this, but to no avail. Let us know what you find out! I'd love to know why they want them to remain on the 70s office block on Buslingthorpe Lane, instead of their rightful place near the former Crown and Fleece. Cheers.

Post by **chameleon** » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 6:06 pm

Si wrote: Kirk Gate wrote: Si, ...the best bit on your post is the Dyson link with Lower Dunsforth as this family are known to me but I was not aware of their connection with Crown Street!Now looking forward to a very interesting evening in the Angler to discuss the return of the sculls.Many thanks for this gem of info!Kirk Gate Now there's a coincidence! Good luck, Kirk Gate. I think several people on here have tried talking to them about this, but to no avail. Let us know what you find out! I'd love to know why they want them to remain on the 70s office block on Buslingthorpe Lane, instead of their rightful place near the former Crown and Fleece. Cheers. Just a thought Si, if they are now bankrupt, are the lads still theirs to control???

String o' beads · Post by **String o' beads** » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 10:52 pm

They don't appear to have gone bankrupt. If you do a search, the company is still filing accounts. The appear to be registered both as a plumbing business and also 'letting of own property'. So that could be the property in question.http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/i ... lumbing%29