White Horse Farm, York Road, Osmondthorpe/

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 12:11 pm

Thanks again everybody.At the risk of being a nuisance, has anyone got access to a copy of the Ordnance Survey Map: Yorkshire Sheet 218.03 East Leeds 1906? If White Horse Farm (or indeed Broom Hill Cottages) is identified on any map, it ought to be on that one, I would think. I'll order myself a copy if anyone can confirm it's on there.

Si · Post by Si » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 12:16 pm

Broom Hill Farm is marked, but no White Horse Farm, unfortunately. Click on the red X to view.There's a White Bridge Farm and a White Beck Farm on the same map (Godfrey's 1908 OS map, 218.03) but they are further east, beyond Halton Dial.

jim · Post by **jim** » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 12:22 pm

Hi Bruno. No sign of White Horse Farm on Sheet 218.03. Broom Hill Farm does appear, and further NE is a building identified as "Broom Hill".Just to confuse matters, there is a White Bridge Farm, east of the Selby Road junction lying between York Road and the railway, and White Beck farm further south. EDIT Curses! Si beat me to it.

barneyrubble · Post by **barneyrubble** » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 4:38 pm

White Horse pub on the southern side of York Road.I've looked up the 1911 census and it shows the family postal address as "White Horse Farm, York Road, Leeds". I've done my best to search for pictures on the internet, but drawn a blank, and I've not been able to find the farm by name on any old map (not that I have access to many old maps). Does anybody know anything about the farm, or can pinpoint just where it was?Bruno,This may not have anything to do with this thread, but there was a very well known sweet shop next to the White Horse, it was called "Sunters", would this be your Family,s ?. If it is then I spent many a penny in there, and "rete good Sweets they were.

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 12:24 pm

By 'eck, Barney, what have I started here? What dates are you going back to?I'm ashamed to say I don't know much at all about my family history (hence coming on here in the first place), but I was visiting my parents last night, so I asked my mum if she knew about the sweet shop.Oh yes, she said, the sweet shop was run by Auntie Nelly Sunter.My mum remembers being taken there in the 1930's from time to time, but she doesn't recall being given any free sweets! Obviously the Sunters were proper Yorkshire folk. Anyway, it seems Nelly was a Sunter by marriage, but my mum couldn't think of the name of her husband; however we know for certain she wasn't my mother's aunt. My mum then produced a photo album with a which contained a photo of Nelly's son, Teddy, being married - judging by the clothing on the people in the pictures, the wedding took place in the 1930's. So if Nelly had children old enough to get married in the 1930's, then I'm guessing she was probably my Grandma's Auntie, which would have made her husband one of Horace's brothers.So the answer to your question is yes, the shop was definitely in our family. Bet you're sorry you asked, now?By the way, thanks very much to Jim and Si for the 1906 Map.

uncle mick · Post by **uncle mick** » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 1:17 pm

So the answer to your question is yes, the shop was definitely in our family. Bet you're sorry you asked, now? (Quote)It was in your family a long time. It was in the Phone Book from 1928 to 1975.N Sunter. 356 York Road.Newsagents and Stationers

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 1:49 pm

Thanks Uncle Mick. I don't think anybody ever told me about that when I was young, you would have thought someone in the family would have pointed it out when we used to go past on the way to Leeds on the bus down York Road.

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 2:41 pm

Thanks everybody for your contributions, this is definitely going to be my last post on the White Horse Farm subject (probably). I've come up with a theory, and this is it:My guess is that Broom Hill Farm and White Horse Farm were one and the same. I think that White Horse Farm was probably the nickname given by locals to the officially named Broom Hill Farm, the name obviously being a reference to the nearby White Horse pub - after all, even today, if somebody says White Horse, Leeds, most people, certainly those from East Leeds, would probably instantly know the area being referred to. It may also have been called that to differentiate it from the Broom (Hill?) area of Middleton/Belle Isle, where there was a Broom Colliery, I believe.This leaves the question of how the name White Horse Farm came to be mentioned in the Census of 1901 and 1911. You might assume that the address on a census form was printed on by the authorities, but not so, at least not in the case of the 1911 census.I have a photocopy of the actual handwritten form by Horace Sunter for the 1911 census, and the address was filled in by the person completing the form - the address is written in as "White Horse Farm, York Road, Leeds". So if old Horace called his home White Horse Farm, then that was what the census compiler would record it as. I believe this may explain why White Horse Farm doesn't appear on any map.Looking at the map, I'm also guessing that the farm and its cottages may have been demolished in the 1920's to make way for the Shaftesbury Cinema, which opened in 1928. I know that by this time, Horace and his family were living back in the Sunter heartland at Morritt Avenue in Halton. However, there is this intriguing photo on Leodis of the Shaftesbury in the early 30's - I wonder if the apparently derelict building on the extreme left is the last remaining part of the farm?http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... FULLLastly, there is another tantalising photo on Leodis which shows the White Horse pub on York Road, and, immediately next door, AE Sunter Grocers shop. AE Sunter? These people were everywhere.......http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... 394900This local history stuff quickly becomes addictive, doesn't it? I'm off to do some research now. Hope I haven't overstayed my welcome. Cheers!

Si · Post by Si » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 3:20 pm

Bruno wrote: Thanks everybody for your contributions, this is definitely going to be my last post on the White Horse Farm subject (probably). I've come up with a theory, and this is it:My guess is that Broom Hill Farm and White Horse Farm were one and the same. I think that White Horse Farm was probably the nickname given by locals to the officially named Broom Hill Farm, the name obviously being a reference to the nearby White Horse pub - after all, even today, if somebody says White Horse, Leeds, most people, certainly those from East Leeds, would probably instantly know the area being referred to. This leaves the question of how the name White Horse Farm came to be mentioned in the Census of 1901 and 1911. I have a photocopy of the actual handwritten form by Horace Sunter for the 1911 census, and the address was filled in by the person completing the form - the address is written in as "White Horse Farm, York Road, Leeds". So if old Horace called his home White Horse Farm, then that was what the census compiler would record it as. I believe this may explain why White Horse Farm doesn't appear on any map.Looking at the map, I'm also guessing that the farm and its cottages may have been demolished in the 1920's to make way for the Shaftesbury Cinema, which opened in 1928. However, there is this intriguing photo on Leodis of the Shaftesbury in the early 30's - I wonder if the apparently derelict building on the extreme left is the last remaining part of the farm?http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... Y=FULLHope I haven't overstayed my welcome. Cheers! No, you certainly haven't overstayed your welcome! Please keep posting.As for your theory, I think you're probably right. This sort of thing happened all the time. The gable end shown in the Leodis picture of the Shaftesbury must definately be a remnant of Broom Hill/White Horse Farm.

Post by **chameleon** » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 3:39 pm

Si wrote: Broom Hill Farm is marked, but no White Horse Farm, unfortunately. Click on the red X to view.There's a White Bridge Farm and a White Beck Farm on the same map (Godfrey's 1908 OS map, 218.03) but they are further east, beyond Halton Dial. This one often confuses people Si, Whitebeck farm was the one to the west of the railway track whilst White Bridge farm was to the east, where the Highways flat now stand; strangley the name was often corrupted to become WYKEbeck Farm, presumably after the Beck.http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?reso ... 9_36907595