White Horse Farm, York Road, Osmondthorpe/

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Thu 22 Sep, 2011 2:45 pm

My grandmother (1901-1999) used to say to me, whenever I drove her down York Road in the latter years of her life, that she was born at White Horse Farm which she indicated was somewhere beyond the football ground behind the White Horse pub on the southern side of York Road.I've looked up the 1911 census and it shows the family postal address as "White Horse Farm, York Road, Leeds". I've done my best to search for pictures on the internet, but drawn a blank, and I've not been able to find the farm by name on any old map (not that I have access to many old maps). Does anybody know anything about the farm, or can pinpoint just where it was?

D Lucas · Post by **D Lucas** » Thu 22 Sep, 2011 4:24 pm

Hi Bruno, ive had a look for the farm but can only see buildings on the map.....it doesnt give any names etc, i was given this link by one of our members and found it very interesting.This is the link, hope you find it helpfull.http://tithemaps.leeds.gov.uk/TwinMaps. ... wd.Robshaw P.S. on my computer the link doesnt work, you may need to copy and paste the address.

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Fri 23 Sep, 2011 12:12 pm

Hi D Lucas, thanks very much for that. As it happens, that was one of the maps I had already searched, after linking to it myself from another thread on here. I notice some farms are identified on there by name, but no sign of one in what I believe to be the right area.I wonder if it was actually still a working farm at the time, or just a house by then? I remember my grandma talking about feeding hens, but don't recall her saying anything about farming as such.My great-grandfather's occupation is listed on the 1911 census as 'Coal Industry Worker' so obviously he wasn't a farmer.It's a pity the census didn't give a house number for York Road.

grumpytramp · Post by **grumpytramp** » Sun 25 Sep, 2011 4:50 pm

BrunoA nice wee puzzle. I do not have access to the 1911 census, but have had a scout through earlier census and may at least help shed some light?I was not able to spot a White Horse Farm in the 1891 census at all. White Horse Farm is however to be found in the 1901 census (four room building), where the residents are recorded as:Henry Wilks, aged 43, born LeedsJane Elizabeth Wilks, aged 40, born LeedsLike your 1911 entry it is very difficult to tie the location down, other than to the parish of Osmondthorpe. What is really helpful though is the occupation listed for Henry Wilks .......... specifically Market Gardener.When I checked the 1891 census, I found Henry and Jane resident in Engine Farm, Hunslet ( http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?reso ... SPLAY=FULL) where his occupation is noted as "Market Gardener as Foreman" I would suggest that White Horse Farm was not a farm as such but a small holding producing vegtables, eggs etc. Regards your OP where you stated that it was "which she indicated was somewhere beyond the football ground behind the White Horse pub on the southern side of York Road", well that ties in with the question posed in the YEP here:http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 81217Which would put a Market Garden about Tyas Grove in about the right location. I had a root about old-maps.co.uk for a more precise location but it would be pure speculation (but possibly reusing existing buildings/glass houses from Osmondthorpe Hall as it appears that Tyas Grove and neigbouring streets were constructed on estate land between 1894 and 1908 )G

gars21 · Post by **gars21** » Sun 25 Sep, 2011 7:06 pm

D Lucas wrote: Hi Bruno, ive had a look for the farm but can only see buildings on the map.....it doesnt give any names etc, i was given this link by one of our members and found it very interesting.This is the link, hope you find it helpfull.http://tithemaps.leeds.gov.uk/TwinMaps. ... wd.Robshaw P.S. on my computer the link doesnt work, you may need to copy and paste the address. if you look on the tithe maps plot details and point the marker to plot 7 behind the white horse pub, it says the plot was called, "white horse field." It states that the land was owned by a Thomas Motley esquire and that he occupied the land and he owned the land surrounding part of this plot, but it was leased to john mawson. hope this can help

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Mon 26 Sep, 2011 3:55 pm

Grumpytramp and gars21, thanks very much for your contributions. It all makes for very interesting reading.I probably should have mentioned that the family name in question here is Sunter, head of the household in 1911 was Horace Sunter aged 36.My grandmother was born in May 1901, and I believe the 1901 census will have been in April 1901, so unless Mr and Mrs Wilks vacated the farm, and my great-grandparents moved in, within a month of the census, then it probably isn't the same building. However, it seems very unlikely that there would be two White Horse Farms (unless it had more than one occupied building, perhaps?).One other possiblity then; was my grandma actually born at the farm (as she always claimed, and she was perfectly lucent right up to her death), or perhaps her familiy moved there when she was an infant, which would have left a longer time-frame for the Wilks to move out and the Sunters move in.What I need to do now is get onto the 1901 census and find out where the family lived then. If the answer is White Horse Farm, then the mystery will only deepen!I'll post some more if I find anything. Thanks again for your responses.

grumpytramp · Post by **grumpytramp** » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 9:26 am

Bruno wrote: I probably should have mentioned that the family name in question here is Sunter, head of the household in 1911 was Horace Sunter aged 36.My grandmother was born in May 1901, and I believe the 1901 census will have been in April 1901, so unless Mr and Mrs Wilks vacated the farm, and my great-grandparents moved in, within a month of the census, then it probably isn't the same building. However, it seems very unlikely that there would be two White Horse Farms (unless it had more than one occupied building, perhaps?). Now there is a thing!I had printed the page from the 1901 census, having just read your post and glanced down at it ......... I had missed that there were two residences at White Horse Farm (George and Mary Ann Elliott; George's occupation seems to be Gardeners Labourer)Just as helpful the next entry is for there is Broom Hill Cottages, York Road where you find:Horace Sunter, Aged 25 and employed as Colliery Store KeeperEdith Sunter, Aged 24Florence Sunter, Aged 4Edith May Sunter, Aged 1 month Best candidate for Broom Hill Cottages one would presume would be in the immediate vicinity of Broom Hill Farm which lay at the junction of York Road and Harehills Lane (Shaftsbury Corner)see http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapshe ... x=636&y=67

Bruno · Post by **Bruno** » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 2:57 pm

Wow!Thanks Grumpytramp, that's fantastic.My grandma was Edith May Sunter, as featured at one month old in your last post (looks like my own memory failed as to her birthday, it must have been in March, not May). Her mother was Edith Winn Sunter and her older sister was Florence. By 1911 there were a couple more little Sunters as well. All the children except Florence lived long enough for me to have known them when I was growing up.One thing I can't understand is that I did a quick 'simple search' on the 1901 census website for Horace Sunter and it came back with no results, so how you managed to find him I don't know. I found him OK on the 1911, 1891 and 1881 censuses.So Grumpytramp, you've pinpointed as near as we're ever likely to get where my grandma was born, and the surprise is that it seems to be on the other side of York Road from the location I've always believed it to be. My mother has also always wondered where the farm was, so she'll be thrilled when I pass this on to her.Thanks again.(Apologies to the other users of SecretLeeds who couldn't care less where my grandma was born, but it's something I've always wanted to find out for some reason.)Bruno.

grumpytramp · Post by **grumpytramp** » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 3:14 pm

BrunoThere is a transcription error for Horace Sunter; on Ancestry/National Archives transcripts he is listed as Hence SunterG

Si · Post by Si » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 4:41 pm

Bruno wrote: (Apologies to the other users of SecretLeeds who couldn't care less where my grandma was born, but it's something I've always wanted to find out for some reason.)Bruno. Hi Bruno. No apology necessary. I'm sure lots of SL members are interested. We always like a mystery, and several people will have been looking at old maps, etc, to help your quest, me included. I didn't post any old maps as you'd already mentioned that you had looked yourself.Congratulations on finding (as near as dammit) White Horse Farm!