FYI - City's second HOV lane to be built on Roundhay Road

[munki]

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/page.aspx?pageI ... ED005C7B1E

[tyke bhoy]

No truth in the rumour that an HOV is going to be incorporated in LIRR7 then

[roundhegian]

munki wrote: http://www.leeds.gov.uk/page.aspx?pageI ... ED005C7B1E There was a high occupancy lane on Roundhay Road between Harehills Lane and Roundhay Park .It was a reserved tram track .

[cnosni]

Admirable in principle,negligable in practice.The answer to a reduction in the number of cars used on our roads during peak hours is cheap,reliable and fast public transport.There must only be a tiny fraction of people who work in the city centre who work with someone who lives in their neighbourhood/on their route into work.So the number of people doing this will be very small.I suspect that councils get a slap on the back and a slice of subsidy money from the EU for introducing such schemes,along with guided bus routes (Scott Hall road and parts of York Road) and the incorporation of tiny cycle paths into road redevelopments (think city square and the 2.5 mtres worth of white paint that denotes a cycle path)These are worse than P****ing on a forest fire.The FTR project has proved a success,because its frequent,reliable,pretty fast and safe .The last two points are because they have conductors. You can get on,sit down ,the bus sets off (without waiting for the driver to take fares)you pay the conductor.So you get to your destination quicker and there is another member of staff to add to the safety/security factor (especailly useful at night),just like the old days.I would rather see any monies for such schemes as the multi occupancy lanes be diverted to a scheme such as trolley bus or tram /train.

[Si]

Can someone enlighten me about guided buses? I admit I've never been on one, but I can't see the advantages of them. I think I must be missing the point, somehow.Ta, Si.

[tyke bhoy]

"The answer to a reduction in the number of cars used on our roads during peak hours is cheap,reliable and fast public transport."Unfortunately this is a chicken and egg situation. I take your point on the ftr conductors making that service faster but in the main it and the other buses still have to use the same roads as the cars. The car drivers therefore don't see them as fast and reliable not realising if they weren't sat in their cars and on the bus it would speed up and be more reliable because of less jams and gridlock. Most don't see it as cheap as they actually have to pay at point of use. They don't equate that much of that £60 they pay at the pumps every week is the equivalent of the bus fare in that it is fuel used to get them to/from work.There is also the safety/snobbery element. A minority of daytime users are those that can't afford cars and tend to be "the dregs" of society who can be intimidating even if not dangerous. You will always get some snobs who just won't use buses because they might have to share the bus with "one of them". Several threads over several years on the BBC Leeds messageboard proves that.SiI think the point of guided bus lanes is that, unlike bus lanes, they don't get used by vehicles that shouldn't be there or worse blocked by someone parking up. The downside is they are rather expensive to install and chew up grass verges/flower beds which are much prettier and environmentally friendly. All this for a vehicle every 10 minutes which only runs any quicker in these lanes for about 2 hours 5 days a week. I maybe wrong but I don't even think they are reversible so they can be used in the opposite "rush hour". For this reason there is very little in Leeds. Scott Hall Road and A64 below Killingbeck and?????????

[cnosni]

tyke bhoy wrote: "The answer to a reduction in the number of cars used on our roads during peak hours is cheap,reliable and fast public transport."Unfortunately this is a chicken and egg situation. I take your point on the ftr conductors making that service faster but in the main it and the other buses still have to use the same roads as the cars. The car drivers therefore don't see them as fast and reliable not realising if they weren't sat in their cars and on the bus it would speed up and be more reliable because of less jams and gridlock. Most don't see it as cheap as they actually have to pay at point of use. They don't equate that much of that £60 they pay at the pumps every week is the equivalent of the bus fare in that it is fuel used to get them to/from work.There is also the safety/snobbery element. A minority of daytime users are those that can't afford cars and tend to be "the dregs" of society who can be intimidating even if not dangerous. You will always get some snobs who just won't use buses because they might have to share the bus with "one of them". Several threads over several years on the BBC Leeds messageboard proves that.SiI think the point of guided bus lanes is that, unlike bus lanes, they don't get used by vehicles that shouldn't be there or worse blocked by someone parking up. The downside is they are rather expensive to install and chew up grass verges/flower beds which are much prettier and environmentally friendly. All this for a vehicle every 10 minutes which only runs any quicker in these lanes for about 2 hours 5 days a week. I maybe wrong but I don't even think they are reversible so they can be used in the opposite "rush hour". For this reason there is very little in Leeds. Scott Hall Road and A64 below Killingbeck and????????? Absolutely agree about the snobbery factor of the car/bus question,but i know i wont get a bus home from town on a night because of the scutters that are on it,thats not snobbery,thats safety.The conductors on these buses add a sense of security to the passenger,same as a train guard on a train.Im sure we all agree that we need to reduce the number of vehicles on the roads in and around the centre,its just pursuading more people to use public transport.There are a many number of factors that contribute to the situaution we have at the moment,for instance the amount of commercial/delivery vehicles on the road,the school run and of course the twice daily rush hour of people going to and from work.The situation in Leeds is made worse by its own success,that is commuters from out of the city adding to the already burgeoning traffic problem we have with just the residents.Now we could discuss which actual mode of public transport is the best,but the principle should remain the same,that is get commuters to leave their vehicles in a safe and secure location,preferably outside the environs of the ring road,and then be able to offer those commuters a safe,fast,reliable and affordable means by which to get to the city and back out again on an evening which will encourage them to use the service,and therefore reduce the traffic coming into the city.The locations of these parking areas should be placed around the cuty environs at particular locations that correspond to the current commuter routes.As for the actual means of transport that should be used,then i dont actually think that one all encompassing transport initiative,ie supertram,is the answer.I think we could and should have an overall policy of fast and reliable means of commuter transport, using a combination of the current public transport modes,ie buses and trains with a new rapid transport system,such as the mooted Tbus.For instance,on one particular route into the city you could have a similar type of bus to the FTR,but with an express service mentality.That is that it does not stop along the route until its destination.Obviously these bus services would have to be in addition to current bus time table so that those of us who already use the bus will still be able to do so.Another scheme could be to build park and ride rail stops,integrated with the current railway infrastructure,with the possibility of actually reopening some disused lines ,if only to be used as a spur for the rail stop,for instance at Crossgates with the old Wetherby line.Naturally there would need to be more rolling stock to cope with this,and some timetable adjustments,though these may not be as disruptive as some people might think because we would be thinking about these park and ride stops being within a 10 to 15 minute journey time of the centre,as in the case of Crossgates (how about at Austhorpe on the bumpy fields opposite Barnbow,theres a junction of the M1 there to facilitate this) or at Newlay between Kirkstall and the ring road.One fantastic loction for this would have been between Outwood and Ardsley,where you have the juncture of the M1 and M62,there WAS plenty of space to have put in the necessary infrastructure,platforms,points, parking and road connections to the motorway network.However the area has been built on and weve missed that one.Finally a rapid system such as Tbus,with the park and ride terminus,say at Stourton,and then routed through Hunslet down Low road and possibly one near the Gildersome exit of the M62,routed down Geldard Road into Leeds (also useful matchdays at Elland Road).Now i know what you are all thinking,tis man is living in some Utopian dream world,but im sure that if the city can offer commuters a way in and out of Leeds that will pursuade them to not use their cars within the environs of Leeds then im sure that a very large percentage will do just that.For those that wont,then lets charge them for coming in to Leeds at peak times,and make it so the alternative new park and ride transport methods are a cheaper option.Now,all we nedd is the will and ................THE MONEY,Doh!!

[tyke bhoy]

I think another station on the Wakefield Line was ruled out because of the capacity on the line. Although that I think was in the context of a Park and Ride at Elland Road rather than at Ardsley and I don't know whether that was before a decision was made to find the capacity on the line to enable GNER and now National Express to run an extra train every hour in each direction for much of the day.This despite there being much fewer trains than on the routes out towards York and HuddersfieldThe major capacity problem on this route is the timing of the stopper (Commuter) trains to and from Sheffield such that they don't interfere with the Intercity East Coast Mainline and particulalry CrossCountry routes. Those stopper trains virtually have to follow the CrossCountry trains out of Leeds and Sheffield in order not to be holding up the CrossCountry service an hour later because the stopper takes getting on for an hour longer. There doesn't seem to be the investment available or inclinclation to find it to install an extra set of track in a couple of places which would allow the fast service to overtake.