Post Office Robberies

Off-topic discussions, musings and chat
Chrism
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Postby Chrism » Tue 15 Dec, 2009 7:21 pm

[quotenick="iansmithofotley"] Middleton Sheriff wrote: I worked with Mick Grubb at Ireland Wood in 1967/68. I was in C.I.D. and he was in Plain Clothes. I also worked with Mick in C.I.D. but never in the same Division. Mick is still around and is known affectionately as the 'Lord Mayor of Horsforth'.    Mick was a 'copper's copper' and was well liked everywhere. He devoted alot of his time, as a D.C.I. to catching John Speed's murder (Tyreman - from memory).         Ha haaaa Mick Grubb. I remember he came to 'try' to nick me in about 72/73. We (the Lodge Road Boot Boys) had a set too with some of The Wyther lot on Ben Gotts footy field and some names, including mine, were bandied about by the greensman at Gotts Park golf club. Grubby turned up at my house and wanted to know all about the kafuffle, of course I knew 'nothing'. He said to me 'well if anything does come to mind you know who I am'. I said "yes I do, your name is splattered all over the bottom Wythers" It was too, someone had painted, in 2ft high white emulsion letters "GRUBBY IS A B******" on the wall ontop of the chippy on Raynville Crescent. Oh how we laughed!    
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stutterdog
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Postby stutterdog » Tue 15 Dec, 2009 7:57 pm

iansmithofotley wrote: Si wrote: I don't know if it was the same in Leeds, but police collar-numbers in Bradford would always start with a 5 for women officers. This identifying number was changed for all new female officers a few years back on PC grounds, so that now they are indistinguishable. This now means that unless an area controller knows a particular person's number, a pair of female officers is as likely to be sent to break up a pub brawl as a male pairing. At the risk of sounding sexist, if I had an all-out fight in my pub, I'd want coppers of the male persuasion to sort it out. Hi Si,Prior to 1974, the male collar numbers in Leeds started at 1 - 1046. The policewomen were known as 'policewomen', or 'WPC's, or 'PW's' - they had their own numbers from 1 to 99. When calling on the radio or being discussed as manpower or on parades, the men were just called by their number, e,g, I was 681. The women were called WPC/PW 20 or whatever in order to distinguish them from the men.In the 1974 amalgamation, the West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police was formed. The collar numbers were reconsidered because each former force started at 1 for men and 1 for women. We were lucky in Leeds because we kept our own numbers. In the provincial forces, we all kept our collar numbers until such time as we were promoted to the rank of inspector - then we lost it and it was reissued to a new recruit.In Bradford area, a 3 was placed before all of the Bradford collar numbers. I am not sure but I think that the former West Yorkshire staff had their numbers reissued so they took up any spaces that were available or a new number beginning with a 4.So far as relates to the Policewomen, the numbers were reissued and all began with a 5, but the Leeds staff still kept their numbers, just placing a 5 infront. All the women had four figure numbers starting with 5 and using 0's where necessary.Due to the usual sex discrimination, equal opportunities, other political correctness and feminism issues, in the 1980/90's, the force decided to do away any 'discrimination' so the women could get any number depending on when they joined and the numbers available. Some of the women (and some men) even complained if female staff were referred to as a policewoman, WPC or PW, it was pathetic.Operationally, it was a pain in the backside because unless you knew the staff, personally, you did not know whether it was a man or a woman you were dealing with or allocating duties to. It wasn't too bad in your own division as you knew who was who, but if you were policing a major event such as a demonstration, pop concert, sporting event, etc., and staff were brought in from all over the force area, it caused problems. Personally, I wanted to know that I wasn't allocating tasks to women that I thought men should be doing, and vice versa. Obviously, in most cases it did not matter but I knew who I would sooner have watching my back if there was a large public disorder problem.In the Metropolitan Police, the staff also had 'Warrant Numbers' but I have no idea just what these were. I suspect that they were just a unique number which an officer always kept, irrespective of rank. I don't think that they matched up with the collar numbers as the collar numbers had the divisional letter plus a number. I have no idea what happened if they moved divisions, they were probably issued with a new collar number.My number, 681, was allocated in the 1930/40's to a well known PC in Leeds called Nobby Clarke. He was the man who directed traffic in City Square for many, many years. You could always tell when he was on duty as the traffic was free flowing. If he wasn't on duty, and someone else was doing the job, then you got traffic jams. I got the number in 1965 and kept it until 1988 when I became an inspector.Ian. A few years ago I was driving for a Private Hire Co. in the Pudsey area and was given a job in Farsley .It was Nobby and His wife going on holiday from LBA. to Tenerife. He told me a few tales of his days on the dias and we had a laugh! A smashing bloke.He actually lived on the same estate as me!
ex-Armley lad
iansmithofotley
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Postby iansmithofotley » Tue 15 Dec, 2009 9:31 pm

Chrism said:Ha haaaa Mick Grubb. I remember he came to 'try' to nick me in about 72/73. We (the Lodge Road Boot Boys) had a set too with some of The Wyther lot on Ben Gotts footy field and some names, including mine, were bandied about by the greensman at Gotts Park golf club. Grubby turned up at my house and wanted to know all about the kafuffle, of course I knew 'nothing'. He said to me 'well if anything does come to mind you know who I am'. I said "yes I do, your name is splattered all over the bottom Wythers" It was too, someone had painted, in 2ft high white emulsion letters "GRUBBY IS A B******" on the wall ontop of the chippy on Raynville Crescent. Oh how we laughed!    Hi Chrism,Believe it or not but I remember this. Mick was, in fact, very proud that he had become famous/infamous in graffiti. He used to deliberatley drive colleagues past the wall and proudly say to them "That's me is that". Ian.    
Middleton Sheriff
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Joined: Fri 08 May, 2009 7:56 am

Postby Middleton Sheriff » Wed 16 Dec, 2009 4:02 pm

My mistake,I have now referred to the nominal roll in the back of the Leeds City Police book and the big useless lump of a bobby who was caught robbing in Harrogate was Colin Budden.Gosh looking down that list brought back many memories.

iansmithofotley
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Postby iansmithofotley » Wed 16 Dec, 2009 8:17 pm

Hi Middleton Sheriff,Yes, you are right it was Budden - PC 93. Ian
Trojan
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Postby Trojan » Sat 19 Dec, 2009 8:59 pm

not entirely unconnected:There was a man who worked for the Post Office whose job was to process all the mail that had illegible addresses.One day, a letter came addressed in a shaky handwriting to God with no actual address. He thought he should open it to see what it was about.The letter read:Dear God,I am an 83 year old widow, living on a very small pension.Yesterday someone stole my purse. It had £100 in it, which was all the money I had until my next pension payment.Next Sunday is Christmas, and I had invited two of my friends over for dinner. Without that money, I have nothing to buy food with, have no family to turn to, and you are my only hope. Can you please help me?Sincerely, EdnaThe postal worker was touched. He showed the letter to all the other workers. Each one dug into his or her wallet and came up with a few pounds.By the time he made the rounds, he had collected £96, which they put into an envelope and sent to the woman. The rest of the day, all the workers felt a warm glow thinking of Edna and the dinner she would be able to share with her friends.Christmas came and went. A few days later, another letter came from the same old lady to God. All the workers gathered around while the letter was opened.It read:Dear God,How can I ever thank you enough for what you did for me? Because of your gift of love, I was able to fix a glorious dinner for my friends. We had a very nice day and I told my friends of your wonderful gift.By the way, there was £4 missing. I think it might have been those b*****ds at the post office.Sincerely, Edna    
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Brandy
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Postby Brandy » Sun 20 Dec, 2009 1:38 am

woooah how did backstuds get through the SL Mary whitehouse system? lol
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John Croggy
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Postby John Croggy » Fri 05 Feb, 2010 8:15 pm

Hi Ian, I'm not getting bored at all with your memories of the old Leeds City Police. I joined in 1964 and served at Ireland Wood, yes Ellerker and Kitchen were there. does anyone remember the incident when a Land Rover was driven over the test wicket at Headingley when someone took the safe from the pavillion? Ellerker dealt with this.I also served at Chapeltown in the'Vice Squad' with Phil Sugden as sergeant. He always answered the phone 'Sugden' and people often assumed he was at least a Chief Inspector from his manner. One of the best answers I ever heard him give in the witness box when a barrister suggested he wasn't telling the truth was, after looking the Judge and jury in the eyes, in his wonderful deep voice 'Mi Lord, Everyone knows I always tell the truth,' The barrister just gave up and sat down. Phil had a demeanour of his own.One of my saddest memories was about John Speed. Before either of us joined we both worked together at what was the Provincial Insurance Company in Boar Lane. John was 18 and I was 19. We both had motor bikes and we went all over together on them with our then girlfriend's. One day we were bored and we were looking out of the window onto Boar Lane. There was a copper standing in shirt sleeve order appearing to be just watching the world go by, I said 'That looks a cushy job. I'm going to join. He replied, 'I'll follow you when I'm old enough.' Sure enough he joined the following year and went to Dewsbury Road. I couldn't believe it when he was killed. I always wondered if he would have joined if I hadn't. I've wanted to say that for years.John

iansmithofotley
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Postby iansmithofotley » Fri 05 Feb, 2010 9:25 pm

John Croggy wrote: Hi Ian, I'm not getting bored at all with your memories of the old Leeds City Police. I joined in 1964 and served at Ireland Wood, yes Ellerker and Kitchen were there. does anyone remember the incident when a Land Rover was driven over the test wicket at Headingley when someone took the safe from the pavillion? Ellerker dealt with this.I also served at Chapeltown in the'Vice Squad' with Phil Sugden as sergeant. He always answered the phone 'Sugden' and people often assumed he was at least a Chief Inspector from his manner. One of the best answers I ever heard him give in the witness box when a barrister suggested he wasn't telling the truth was, after looking the Judge and jury in the eyes, in his wonderful deep voice 'Mi Lord, Everyone knows I always tell the truth,' The barrister just gave up and sat down. Phil had a demeanour of his own.One of my saddest memories was about John Speed. Before either of us joined we both worked together at what was the Provincial Insurance Company in Boar Lane. John was 18 and I was 19. We both had motor bikes and we went all over together on them with our then girlfriend's. One day we were bored and we were looking out of the window onto Boar Lane. There was a copper standing in shirt sleeve order appearing to be just watching the world go by, I said 'That looks a cushy job. I'm going to join. He replied, 'I'll follow you when I'm old enough.' Sure enough he joined the following year and went to Dewsbury Road. I couldn't believe it when he was killed. I always wondered if he would have joined if I hadn't. I've wanted to say that for years.John Hi John Croggy,I joined in May 1965 and first worked at Upper Wortley P.S. I moved into C.I.D. at Ireland Wood P.S. in September 1967, so I was probably there at the same time as you. I worked with David Clarkson who was my D.S.    Geoff Ellerker was also a D.S. but I do not remember Ken Kitching being there. I thought that they teamed up when they were at Millgarth P.S. when Geoff got promoted to Inspector, and that is the division where the Oluwale saga mainly took place.I do not remember that particular incident at Headingley Cricket Ground but I do remember the 'Free George Davies' campaign when the protesters dug up the wicket. It must have been around 1972/73 time as a I was a Uniform Sergeant at Dewsbury Road P.S. and one of the P.C.'s on my shift, called Booth, was supposed to be guarding the wicket and the ground during the night that it happened. I don't know what took place - whether he fell asleep or wasn't where he should've been, I don't know, but he was blamed and disciplined for not preventing the incident. Davies was a London or southern villain who had, allegedly, been 'stitched up' and was serving a prison sentence for a crime that he claimed that he did not commit. The Protest Group were trying to get a retrial or get him pardoned. They sought publicity for their campaign by digging up the wicket/pitch before the international cricket match, during the night.I worked at Chapeltown Vice Squad from 1981 until 1983. I have already mentioned Philip Sugden in another post. When he was there, in the seventies, I think it was called the 'Plain Clothes Department' albeit it was the 'Vice Squad'. The name probably changed after the amalgamation in April 1974.As previously mentioned in another post, I joined with John Speed. We were at Training School together at Pannal Ash. Because his collar number was 696 and mine was 681, we always sat next to each other during probationer classes at Brotherton House, as the probationers were seated in numerical order and there was nobody who had a collar number between ours. I never actually worked with him though, as he was mainly at Dewsbury Road P.S. and Gipton P.S. during the early part of his service so were at opposite sides of Leeds. John later spent the majority of his service in the Special Branch before he moved into Divisional C.I.D. and then as a Uniform Sergeant at Millgarth P.S., where he was serving, when he got shot and killed near to Leeds Parish Church.I do not know whether or not your Username is your real name. I suspect that it is not, but I probably know you. Perhaps you would like to name your collar number then I will possibly be able to identify you. Ian
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chameleon
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Postby chameleon » Fri 05 Feb, 2010 11:36 pm

Brandy wrote: woooah how did backstuds get through the SL Mary whitehouse system? lol Was it wrritten in astericks or was it changed? Would be better if everyone realised it isn't acceptable to everyone to speak that way wouldn't it? Admin have been very clear about the potential audience for the site and you'll remember they include replacing letters with other characters as unacceptable - leaves the meaning just as clear.





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