Poverty - how our perceptions change

[grumpytramp]

I was pottering through the Leodis website earlier, still trying to find the precise location of Harehills Colliery, hoping to find a hint perhaps in the background of photos from Burmantofts or HarehillsNae luck...... but then stumbled on photographs of a retired miner taken in 1956 who lived in Green Road and had been employed at Yorkshire Main Colliery (which really struck home as that was the pit my grandfather and a huge number of my family were employed ........ though it was located in Edlington near Doncaster).This fella lived in a single room in a terrace house, relying on the grate for heat and cooking with nothing more in his room than a old iron bedstead, a battered armachair, a few small tables (one containing his food ...... what appears to be sterilsed milk, bread and jam) and bare rotten wallshttp://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIde ... LAY=FULLIt transpires according to Leodis that "the photograph was one of a series commissioned by Leeds Headteacher, Reggie Marks to be used in a campaign to draw attention to poor living conditions and the need for a better standard of housing."We have come along way in 50 + yearsIt makes me really wonder whether as a society we really now understand the true meaning of the word poverty?

[Misc]

I found a couple of definitions of poverty;"Poverty is defined relative to the standards of living in a society at a specific time. People live in poverty when they are denied an income sufficient for their material needs and when these circumstances exclude them from taking part in activities which are an accepted part of daily life in that society."Scottish Poverty Information Unit"The most commonly used way to measure poverty is based on incomes. A person is considered poor if his or her income level falls below some minimum level necessary to meet basic needs. This minimum level is usually called the "poverty line". What is necessary to satisfy basic needs varies across time and societies. Therefore, poverty lines vary in time and place, and each country uses lines which are appropriate to its level of development, societal norms and values."The World Bank OrganisationI sincerely hope that no retired folks are living like the miner in the photo. Interesting how neat the room is though, with little cloths on the tables. I think people took more pride in what they did have rather than moaning about what they didn't, unlike us youth of today who think the world owes us a living...when I think about my nana's life, it makes me feel a bit ashamed, it'd be fair enough for someone in their 80s or 90s to tell me I don't know I'm born! I've met plenty of moaning oldsters but I do think that we've got less and less content over the generations since WW2...really, if you can pay your rent and bills, access healthcare when you need it and put food on the table you're doing okay compared to most of the world's population. It is difficult to remember that sometimes when you notice next door's widescreen telly or brand new car, or you're the only person in the office not going away for a holiday. I can almost hear my ancestors shouting "boo *****y hoo!" as I type that...

[oldleedsman]

The Government define poverty as 60% of the median family income. If you can remember your o-level maths, the median is the mid-point of a distribution of numbers ie 50% of the numbers would be below this, and 50% above.So, as people's income rises, so does the poverty measure. It depends very much upon the distribution of incomes.It is not related to how much money you actually need to live 'comfortably' on.

[sundowner]

oldleedsman wrote: The Government define poverty as 60% of the median family income. If you can remember your o-level maths, the median is the mid-point of a distribution of numbers ie 50% of the numbers would be below this, and 50% above.So, as people's income rises, so does the poverty measure. It depends very much upon the distribution of incomes.It is not related to how much money you actually need to live 'comfortably' on. Hi oldleedsman its a good job poverty is not based on the old means test there would be a hell of a lot of people who would not pass. its all a case of prioritys eg 48 tv or pay the rent.Surround sound or pay council tax . I rest my case.

[martino]

Poverty isWhen me and my wife both work full time, bring up three kids,pay all our dues and demands,respect others and live within the laws of our country.Affluence isWhen him and his partner/wife don't work,drag up any number of kids,pay for nothing,have no respect for anyone,make as much noise at night as they want,lie in till dinner time (unless they have to sign on) and teach their offspring to do the same.

[chamusdarrach]

martino wrote: Poverty isWhen me and my wife both work full time, bring up three kids,pay all our dues and demands,respect others and live within the laws of our country.Affluence isWhen him and his partner/wife don't work,drag up any number of kids,pay for nothing,have no respect for anyone,make as much noise at night as they want,lie in till dinner time (unless they have to sign on) and teach their offspring to do the same. Well said, wondering if you have the same neighbours as me, then ?? !!

[Trojan]

Poverty was - when I was at school - the kids on free school dinners. What makes it worse is that we all knew who they were.

[Lilysmum]

My Grandad was born in 1900 and his mother was widowed shortly after and left with 6 children to bring up.The stories he told me of their life are difficult for people of my generation to comprehend,doing a moonlight flit when the rent was due,no food on the table for days and no shoes on your feet was a part of everyday life.It made him grateful for every thing he had in adult life and he went mad if we left food on our plates and said if you knew what it was like to go hungry you wouldn't waste a crumb.Life must have been so hard for the poor woman,no state handouts in those days.My husband died 10 years ago so I am also a single parent (only 2 kids)though more fortunate as I am finacially secure and don't need help from the government,but it makes me think how different our lives would have been 100 years ago

[sundowner]

Lilysmum wrote: My Grandad was born in 1900 and his mother was widowed shortly after and left with 6 children to bring up.The stories he told me of their life are difficult for people of my generation to comprehend,doing a moonlight flit when the rent was due,no food on the table for days and no shoes on your feet was a part of everyday life.It made him grateful for every thing he had in adult life and he went mad if we left food on our plates and said if you knew what it was like to go hungry you wouldn't waste a crumb.Life must have been so hard for the poor woman,no state handouts in those days.My husband died 10 years ago so I am also a single parent (only 2 kids)though more fortunate as I am finacially secure and don't need help from the government,but it makes me think how different our lives would have been 100 years ago Hi Lilysmum My mum god rest her soul brought me and my sister up on her own She had three jobs to go to thats so she could just about make ends meet .It makes me sick when you see people on tv going on about poverty three or four kids running round fag in the mouth big flat screen tv in the corner.Do gooders telling us how poor they are they dont know how well of they are or do they.If you tell them to get a job they say they would be worse off something wrong there dont you think.They could have an old person living next door worked all there live with a hell of a less income than they have Its a case of if you know that when you retire you wont be well off then spend it on yourself and let the state look after you if not its a case of you lose out big time Ps just to let you know i am retired and live on a state pension left school at fifteen worked for fifty years wonder if it was worth it at times.    

[raveydavey]

You may be shocked to find that some of the current indicators of poverty now are if the home you live in has central heating or double glazed windows.If not, you could well be living in poverty.Whilst these creature comforts are desireable, they are far from essential.So, when I hear of "x" percentage of people living in poverty, I can't help feel a little sceptical about the statistics. It appears I've spend nearly all my life living in poverty...