The Fenton Hotel.

[dERvXeroX]

Geordie-exile wrote: dERvXeroX wrote: HA!Building began on Fenton Street in 1842. The name was taken from Isabella Fenton, friend of Henrietta Strickland, who had bought land in 1840. A house she had built in 1855 became the Fenton public house.http://www.leodis.org/display.aspx?reso ... 29_3458803 dERvXeroX wrote: Geordie-exile wrote: Lots about Mary Yale here:http://theoldmeadows.co.uk/in_lunacy.html The only problem is this article says Isobella Fenton died in 1854, a year before she built the Fenton. I read the first quote to mean that Henrietta Strickland was the 'she' in 'house she had built', not Isabella. The only connection with Isabella was that the street was named after her, because she was a friend of the lady who bought the land and had the houses built. If you read it that way, then it's not inconsistent that Isabella died in 1854. Good point. I should stop skim reading.

[liits]

Geordie-exile wrote: Aww, can't we all know the secret? It's no secret infact, I'm going to be asking for losts of help but DervXeroX gets first look.

[Fenton]

This is amazing I will be contacting you all....the future is also relevant and we are looking to add a new in house promoter...here's some news... update on The Fenton, Leeds.Jam night is back it's Tuesdays "THE FENTON BOOGIE" from 8pm all kit provided.We have a newly refurbished upstairs... "UPSTAIRS@THE FENTON" has been a gig haunt for many years as you know.Shows stopped, not everybody knew. We are now back on track.If it is not somewhere you have not played or promoted at in the past, please feel free to come along have a beer or a brew and a chat, let's see what we can do for you?Possible free hire, depending on what you may want to do.We now have a bar fitted upstairs, better lighting and a brand new pa system, with a new pa team behind that installation, Jonny & Si are the guys from Carpe, Empire and various other venues in Leeds and are the vital part of our Re-invention@The Fenton.We are actually looking to appoint a new in house promoter if you know any?Or aiming to host promoters, bands diy gigs.The hire fee is £100 purely for pa and soundguys, payable on the night.Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays only at this stage.Posters, promo & advertising etc can be done in house now.The door fee / tax you may want to charge when booking the venue to use as an event space, gig venue is then yours 100%.All ready running, we have pole dancing classes, poker nights and The Fenton Boogie, which is Tuesdays from 8pm....plug in and play, come along and jam with the in house crew.

[String o' beads]

Err...right. So nothing about the history then?

[Cardiarms]

It will be in about 20 years when the then Secret leedsers wax romantically about their youth.

[String o' beads]

Cardiarms wrote: It will be in about 20 years when the then Secret leedsers wax romantically about their youth. Aye. It'll be all 'Anyone remember Tiger Tiger. Eee I must've looked a right nana with me keks half way down me backside and me hair looking like a plastered down walnut whip. Aye, them were the days'etc.

[String o' beads]

Anyway, did liits find out anything, do we know?

[liits]

Sorry, I never did post what I sent to DeRvXeRoX.As we can't post PDF's on here and I can't do MS Word documents, I've had to copy this as best I can and the format is a bit stuffed.The first, second and third licensees of the premises were related.The first licensee was John Milner [b.28th October 1810 Leeds] a bricklayer who gained a [2 Guinea] Beer House license in the 1850’s. He is listed in the 1849/50 Sears & Roebuck, 1851 & 1853 White’s Directories at No 31 Woodhouse Lane. There is a little hint in the Leodis photo 2003311_31452578 although the caption, which states “It was built in 1853 and is still open today” is wrong inasmuch as it was already the Milner family home and had possibly been a beer house since 1849/50 according to the S&R Directory. Gaining a Beer House license was a good and not uncommon way of supplementing the family income. Often run by the wife, the husband often became involved in the business as the brewer when and if the business took off. John is recorded in the 1951 census as living at the premises – employed as a Bricklayer- with his wife Elizabeth nee Banks [b.1811 Leeds] whom he had married on 1st March 1832 at St Peter’s Parish Church, and their son Samuel [b.1842 Leeds]. I’ve not been able to discover when he died but it must have been before February 1855 – as you will see.The second licensee was James Broughton. He succeeded the license upon the death of John Milner [there is no record that John’s wife [Elizabeth] ever succeeded the license].James Broughton [b.1808 Leeds] is listed in the 1857, 1858 & 1861 White’s Directories living at No 31 Woodhouse Lane and recorded in the 1861 census as living at the premises [though, numbered No. 24 in the census] with his wife Elizabeth Milner nee Banks [b.1811 Leeds], his son from his first marriage, James [b.1839 Kirkstall] and his wife’s son from her first marriage to John Milner [see above], Samuel [b.1842 Leeds], and a domestic servant.He had married Elizabeth on 24th February 1855 at St George’s Church, Great George Street, Leeds. Again, I’ve not been able to discover her date of death.The third Licensee is Samuel Milner [b.1842 Leeds] listed in the Jones 1863 Directroy and 1866 White’s Directory. Son of the aforementioned John Milner and Elizabeth Milner. As I have not been able to discover the date of death of his step-father, I don’t know if he succeeded the license because his step-father died or retired.The License is succeeded sometime between 1866 and 1870 by James Tymm [b.1832 Hazlegrove, Cheshire]. Listed in the 1870 White’s Directory &1872 Porter’s Directory, his name would Later become synonymous with the Tymm’s Hotel, Woodhouse Lane [which stood approximately where Kitson College was / is].1872 is the point at which the new Licensing Act kicks off and a Licensing Bench is convened. It is also the start of a recognisable Licensing Register. Also, the trade directories become more frequent and more accurate [apart from Robinson’s Directory which, more often than not, is wrong].Porter’s Directory    1872 J TymmLicensing Register    1872 John MidgleyJohn comes fromm the Hopewell Inn, Glasshouse Street.Born 1838 Leeds. The 1871 census records him living at the premises with his wife, Harriet nee Ratcliff [b.1840 Leeds], whom he had married on 16th April 1859 at St Peter’s Parish Church, Leeds, his widowed sister-in-law, Hannah Verity [b.1827 Leeds], her daughter Ann [b.1864 Leeds] and two lodgers. His occupation is recorded on the census as Brush maker and Inn Keeper.McCorquodale’s    1876 J MidgleyOn 17th August 1876 the license transfers to William Ralph Wood. On the 29th September 1876 he takes up the license of the Spring Hill Tavern, North Hall Terrace, where he stays until 15th January 1880 when he leaves the trade. He is recorded in the 1881 census as a “Forge man”. Died in the first quarter of 1921.Licensing Register    1876 William Ralph Wood17th August 1876 – 21st February 1878Born 25th February 1840 Denby, Yorks. The 1861 records him living at 57 Woodhouse Lane with his parents William Snr. [b.1797 Egton, Yorks] a master Butcher and Jane [b.1811 Egton, Yorks], his brothers Samuel [b.1837 Egton, Yorks], John F [b.1842 Leeds], George [b.1844 Leeds], James S [b.1848 Leeds] and a domestic servant. His employment is recorded as Butcher. Not found in the 1871 census. The 1881 & 1891 census records him living in Kirkby Malzeard, Yorks with his wife Mary [b.1851 Ripon], their children Winifred W [b.1875 Dewsbury], William R Jnr. [b.1882 Kirkby Malzeard], Henrietta [b.1888 Kirkby Malzeard] and his widowed mother, Jane [b.1812 Egton / Denby]. He is described as a retired butcher.Died 2nd January 1915 while living at Kirkby Malzeard, leaving effects of £179 14s 6d to his son William Jnr.Licensing Register    1878 John Ford21st February 1878 – 6th November 1885Born 1853 Leeds. The 1871 census records him living at 3 Giles Street [off York Street] with his widowed mother, Charlotte [b.1816 Leeds], and his older brother William [b.1844 Leeds]. His occupation is recorded as Mechanic’s Labourer. Kelly’s Directory    1881 John FordThe 1881 census records him living at the premises with his wife, Emma nee Hobson [b.1858 Leeds], whom he had married on 22nd December 1879 at St Peter’s Parish Church, Leeds.Kelly’s Directory    1882 John FordOn 25th June 1886 he goes to the St James’ Tavern, St James’ Street, and then on 29th March 1889, to the Mason’s Arms [previously known as the Stone Masons Arms], St James Street.Date of death unknown.Licensing Register    1885 Robert Wilson6th November 1885 – 2nd November 1888Born 1857 Leeds. The 1881 census records him living with relatives as a lodger at 9 Clyde Street, Wortley [his own parents having died] and employed as a Forge man.Kelly’s Directory    1886 Robert WilsonKelly’s Directory    1888 Robert WilsonThe 1891 census records him living at the Royal Exchange Hotel, Branch Church Street, Hunslet, with his wife Mary Ann nee James [b.1860 Llanelli, Wales] whom he had married on 16th October 1882 at St John the Evangelist, Wortley, Leeds, and their children David L [b.1884 Leeds], Mary E [b.1885 Leeds], Bertha [b.1886 Leeds], Robert [b.1886 Leeds].He leaves the Fenton on 2nd November 1888 and goes to the Royal Exchange, Branch Church Street, Hunslet taking up the license on the same day. He later moves to the Red House Inn, Church Street, Hunslet and subsequently to the Mechanic’s Arms, East Street.Licensing Register    1888 William Ernest Baxter2nd November 1888 – 18th March 1898Comes from the George, Great George Street.Born 1854 Barwick in Elmet. The 1881 census records him living at the George Hotel, Great George Street, Leeds, where he is the licensee, with his wife Ellen Agatha nee Soulter [b.1855 Bombay, India] whom he had married on 25th December 1873 at St Peter’s Parish Church, Leeds, their daughters Lillie [b.1875 Leeds], Susie [b.1877 Leeds – her father was a Sergeant in the 33rd Regiment of Foot], a lodger and two domestic servants. He leaves the George Hotel on 23rd March 1888.Slater’s Directory    1892 William E BaxterThe 1891 census records him living at the premises with his wife, two eldest daughters and five other children born since the last census; Gertrude M [b.1882 Leeds], Idalia M [b.1884 Leeds], William Jnr. [b.1885 Leeds], Irene M [b.1890 Leeds], Harry – who’s given names are actually Herbert Henry [b.1891 Leeds] and a domestic servant.Kelly’s Directory    1893 William Ernest BaxterKelly’s Directory    1897 William Ernest BaxterOn 6th May 1898 he takes on the license of the Cloth Hall Tavern, Infirmary Street, but returns to the Fenton in 1900. While it is not unusual for a tenant to go off and run another pub, often times they would install another member of the family in their stead.I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the free-holder had bumped up the rent and William left, only to return when the lease came up again. As far as I can tell, William Servant was not a sub-tenant to William E Baxter. Leases could last for anything from three months to three years. Two years is quite normal.Licensing Register    1889 William Servant18th March 1898 – 16th March 1900Sadly, William Servant’s tenure of the premises is one of those that falls within the dates of the census. While his is not a common name, there are a few William Servants in Leeds at the time all of whom are suitable candidates.Robinson’s     1898 William ServantKelly’s Directory    1899 William ServantKelly’s Directory    1900 William ServantGoes to the Sussex Tavern, Sussex Street, Burley.Licensing Register    1900 William Ernest Baxter16th March 1900 – 19th September 1901Comes from the Cloth Hall Tavern, Infirmary Street.Kelly’s Directory    1901 William E BaxterThe 1901 census records him living at the premises with his wife and family and an additional daughter, born since the last census, Winifred A [b.1896 Leeds] along with five domestic servants.Died in the third quarter of 1901 Leeds.Robinson’s    1902 William E BaxterTrade Directories can be wildly inaccurate and Robinson’s was one of the worst. Some companies copied information from others and it was not unknown for Kelly’s [as the leader in the field] to insert deliberate mistakes. Luckily, this is the only erroneous entry for these premises.Licensing Register    1901 Ellen Agatha Baxter19th September 1901 – 25th January 1925Wife of the above named William Ernest. She succeeds the license upon his death. [This is a bit of artistic license on my part. While it is true that the license did transfer to her, she would have had to have gone to court for a Protection Order - a sort of temporary license to enable to business to trade without a licensee, and then go back to court at the next full sitting of the Licensing Justices at a transfer session for the full transfer of the license. While it was not unknown for the Justices to refuse an applicant, they did tend to look favourably upon the transferee being the surviving spouse or offspring].Kelly’s Directory    1903 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1904 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1905 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterRobinson’s    1906 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterRobinson’s    1907 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1907 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1908 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterRobinson’s    1909 Mrs E A BaxterKelly’s Directory    1909 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterRobinson’s    1910 Mrs E A BaxterKelly’s Directory    1910 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1911 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterThe 1911 census records her living at the premises with her four youngest children and a domestic servant.Kelly’s Directory    1912 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1913 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1914 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1915 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1916 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1917 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1920 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1921 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1922 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterKelly’s Directory    1923 Mrs Ellen Agatha BaxterDied on 18th November 1924 leaving effects of £2483 9s 5d divided between Thomas Percy Varley [Club Steward] and Albert Beckwith [Secretary].Licensing Register    1925 Herbert Henry Baxter23rd January 1925 – 18th May 1956Born 1891 Leeds. The seventh child of the above named William Ernest and Ellen Agatha; he succeeds the license upon the death of his mother. He had previously been employed as an Electrical Engineer.Kelly’s Directory    1925 Herbert H BaxterMarried to Doris Mary nee Ambler some time after the 15th February 1925 at Emanuel Church, Woodhouse Lane, Leeds.Kelly’s Directory    1927 Herbert H BaxterKelly’s Directory    1929 Herbert H BaxterKelly’s Directory    1932 Herbert H BaxterThe Licensing Register records on the 8th March 1934 “Provisional Order (on plans) for the removal of this license to land situated in Woodhouse Lane being the site of premises No’s 161, 163 & 165 Woodhouse Lane. Granted”.On the 20th April 1934 the above order was granted.On the 30th August 1935 The above order was declared to be final. I have a bit of a problem with this note. It is transcribed exactly as it is entered on the Licensing Register. What it means is that the owners of the premises [Tetley’s] had applied to the Licensing Justices to have the license swapped from one premises to another, not to open another completely new premises. To prove the suitability of the premises they had provided the Justices with a set of plans of the new / proposed premises. It’s my opinion that the proposed premises are the premises we see today. This being the case, where was the previous premises?Sadly, Beer Houses tend not to be marked on maps so, despite trawling through several sources, I’ve not been able to figure out where it was. I know it was on Woodhouse Lane [the Licensing Register records the street name but not the number – probably because street property numbers in Leeds changed more often than the Mayor’s socks] and I’m certain sure it was within the vicinity but as to the exact location, my money is on; that it was next door and that the premises has probably extended one way or the other into the adjoining building.Anyway, the request was granted. The “Decaled Final” part means that the event actually happened or was completed on that date.Kelly’s Directory    1936 Herbert H BaxterKelly’s Directory    1938 Herbert H BaxterKelly’s Directory    1940 Herbert H BaxterKelly’s Directory    1947 Herbert Henry BaxterThe Licensing Register records that a Publicans License was granted at the Brewster Session sitting on the 8th February 1951 which came into effect on 16th March 1951. The Beer House License lapsed on 4th April 1951.This would have been an almost automatic grant. At the time [well, from about 1940ish, if a premises was of sufficient specification [and the specification includes a whole load of stupidity], when the license came up for renewal [then, every 2 years] it would be recommended to the Justices to grant a new license. That is an extremely simplified version of how it worked. In actuality, the Justices [The Butcher, the Green Grocer and the Baker] would use the 1910 Licensing [consolidation] Act to close Beer Houses down at the first opportunity.The premises new page in the Licensing Register records “ This license was granted on the 8th February 1951 subject to the following condition being attached as having regard to proper supervision and good management the Justices think best adapted for securing to the public the monopoly value which is represented by the difference which the premises will bear in the opinion of the Justices when so licensed and the value of the same premises if they were not licensed, namely the sum of £18,000 less the sum of £15,000 determined by the Licensing Justices as being the amount of monopoly value given up by the surrender of the Beer & Wine (on) license for the same premises, the sum of £3000 to be paid on or before taking out the first excise license”.This was a complete scam - enshrined in law, and devised to raise revenue for the City Council. The Corporation’s Valuer decided the saleable value of the premises viewed as both a Beer House and as a Public House. Oddly enough, for all the BH’s that changed over to PH’s, it always seems to be about the £3k mark!Licensing Register    1951 Herbert Henry BaxterDied in the second quarter of 1956 Leeds.Licensing Register    1956 Doris Baxter18th May 1956 – 7th December 1956[Unable to establish Exact or Best Match identity] She succeeds the license upon the death of her husband.Licensing Register    1956 Leonard Smith7th December 1956 – 13th January 1961Comes from the Corporation Hotel, Camp Road [which he left on 7th December 1956]Licensing Register    1961 Walter Kelly13th January 1961 – 18th May 1962Goes, on the 18th May 1962, to the Granville, Lincoln Green Road, Burmantofts where he stays until 17th May 1963 and then, on the same day, transfers to the Alexandra Arms, Wortley Lane, Holbeck.Licensing Register    1962 Allen Webster18th May 1962 – 17th May 1963Licensing Register    1963 Roy Sugden17th May 1963 – 2nd October 1964Licensing Register    1964 Geoffrey Laycock2nd October 1964 – 14th May 1965Comes from the Wellington Inn, Wellington Street & St Philip’s Street. The license of the Wellington Inn did not transfer from Geoffrey until the 20th November 1964. Licensing Register    1965 Harold Collins14th May 1965 – 25th June 1965Goes, on 13th August 1965, to the Viaduct Inn, Briggate.Licensing Register    1965 Hylton Horsman25th June 1965 – Licensing Register volume endsThis is the end of the most up-to-date Licensing Register that is held at Sheepscar. The current register [for premises registered under the 2003 Act] is available to view online but the missing bit is still held by Leeds City Council and, because of “Living Person Privacy”, they’re not about to release it and can’t put a date on when they will.         

[Leodian]

Hi liits. That will have taken a lot of effort and time. Well done. Hand copying short pieces may be no problem but anything longer than short is. Several years back now I got a hand held battery text copying thing that you ran over text to copy it. I had hoped it would help when I wanted to take information when I was at a library but it proved to be worse than useless.

[uncle mick]

Fantastic research