Horsforth Roundabout.

[Uno Hoo]

I'd settle for his sister! Did you see her on "Pointless" the other day?

[BLAKEY]

No Uno Hoo, I didn't see the lady concerned, who is presumably called Doris - I presume that she takes the trouble to see to her hair from time to time, and to get some "togs" that fit. Following in brother Boris's footsteps for a new Routemaster I imagine that she's working on the design for a retro Hoover with filthy inflatable fabric bag "because people loved them and they are an icon of housework."

[tilly]

We also have problems with the Thornbury roundabout I was going to Otley on Thursday i thought i would miss the hold up on the ring road.So i thought i would go through Greengates big mistake. I hit traffic at the war memorial in Pudsey this was all the way to the roundabout it took me twenty minutes to get to the Marsh pub this should be a two minute drive i turned off and made my way back into Pudsey then took the ring road to Horsforth it took me an hour to get to Otley i pity anyone who has to go either way to get to work.

[raveydavey]

The real problem is that if you speed up traffic significantly through either of these roundabout, you just shift the problem along to the next one (either Dawson's Corner or the Woodside roundabout.

The Ring Road should have been upgraded to dual carriageway throughout a long time ago, preferably with upgraded junctions where it crosses other major roads. There is ample room alongside the existing road, but the council bottled it when the NIMBY's of Moortown kicked up a fuss in the late 80s.

[WiggyDiggy]

Getting people onto the trains would have a bigger impact than improving the ring road, unfortunately the service that is provided in that area on the Leeds/Harrogate and Leeds/Bradford lines is both substandard and expensive. Doesnt help that most of the local stations to that area on the Leeds/Bradford line closed.

http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co ... adford.htm

Used to be 4 stations after Horsforth and the line was quad so more capacity.

People would rather queue in traffic in their cars than suffer the trains and I dont blame them!

[BLAKEY]

The Northern Rail service to Harrogate etc via Headingley MUST be unrivalled as the very worst in the Country for dangerous, and I don't use the word lightly, overcrowding, especially at peak times. Often it is literally impossible to wedge another sardine in at the worst times. The "double standards" are incredible. While the gangways, vestibules and stairwells are packed to the point that you can scarcely raise a hand we sometimes have to listen to garbled announcements such as "Please take time to read the safety notices which are posted throughout the train" - and if you're lucky you might just be able to read the transfers imploring you NOT to block the entrances. The alarming lurching of the carriagages, especially the four wheeled single truck 142s , makes you dread to think of the panic within if a derailment should occur - or if anyone was taken ill during such overcrowding. After many years of it I've given up the battle and, being a little claustrophobic, I don't attempt to board under such extreme conditions and simply sacrifice (waste) my ticket and use the bus instead to Headingley - on such occasions I've commented to the conductor as I leave the platform that there'll be such a disaster one of these days - sometimes there's a polite shrug and other times a deafening silence.

[jdbythesea]

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Blakey. I took the train from H/forth to Leeds everyday in the early 80s and the overcrowding was absolutely ridiculous but a daily torture to endure. Back then there were 1st Class areas as well as the guards van for the sardines to spill into and passengers certainly did. Many journeys were so crowded that the conductor/guard never got anywhere near collecting most of the fares. That was in the era of the misleading "this is the age of the train" advertising campaign. 30+ years on and there have been very few improvements.
The only time I take a train these days is on the annual trip to London with Mrs jdbythesea. The journey down to Hull and on to to Kings X via Donny for us is the Orient Express Pullman class by comparison.
By the way though perhaps a week early - Happy Christmas to all SLers - I'm having a little holiday so may not post again until next year. Cheers everybody and enjoy yourselves!

[BLAKEY]

Thanks jdbythesea, and believe me I know from personal experience that its now far worse than in the "bad old eighties" and if its a two car train it simply beggars description. The position is so bad that, a year or two ago, an arrangement was introduced whereby the daily Harrogate to London train stops to pick up at Horsforth. As far as fare collecting goes, an infuriatingly large proportion of the Northern Rail conductors make no attempt ever to collect any fares, even on lightly loaded trains. Regular passengers know this and between Leeds, Headingley and Horsforth literally hundreds can be seen daily riding free - and its not unknown for people to travel all the way to Harrogate and York without being approached for any money. WHAT a way to run a business. The scandal spreads far beyond this particular line to much of the network where those "in the know" can change in Leeds without leaving the station and access unmanned stations all over, for example South Elmsall, Fitzwilliam, Outwood, Garforth etc etc without parting with a penny. There has recently been a ticket machine installed on the Leeds bound platform at Headingley - totally exposed in the open air wind rain and bright sun and illegible - and only takes debit/credit cards, no cash.
The whole situation is a shambles and Utopia for the dishonest - I just wish I had the amount of revenue thrown down the drain daily, and I often use the example of if a supermarket allowed till operators to look every other customer, or all the customers, in the eye and say "Oh go on, take your groceries home - or pay the security man if he catches you on the way out" !!

[tyke bhoy]

and only takes debit/credit cards, no cash.

I'd say it is at least a step forward. My experience when I occasionally use the train into Leeds from Outwood is that most commuters in need of a ticket pay by card. In the case of the Conductors and Revenue Protection Officers this is actually slower but for a machine is as fast or faster if you are trying to feed it notes. I don't think we will ever return to the days of ticket machines that accept cash at unmanned stations simply because they are too much of a security risk even if heavily covered by cctv. Even if it were possible to make them theft proof it wouldn't stop people trying a-la fork lift trucks at atm.

[WiggyDiggy]

Just to add the latest bright idea on fare dodging -

NR are now issuing 'tokens' to people who cannot pay - typically card payees who cards will not be accepted as the NR machines are not live, and if your card is a 'no offline' transactions (such as the old Switch cards) it will not work. The idea being that is proof of where you boarded when you arrive at somewhere you can buy a ticket.

Now here is the issue, the token is a worthless piece of paper and is not legal at all. It proves nothing after all I could arrive at my destination, having found a token from a nearer station, and use that 'evidence'. The last one that was given to me went in the bin, and no one asked me for it.

Recently revenue accosted me at Leeds to ensure I had the right ticket(I did), so that was at least something that they are attempting to challenge people on fare dodging. But the prettty dire situation is more needs to be done by NR otherwise they'll never have any money to improve anything.

Whats this got to do with a roundabout lol We seemed to have derailled (geddit arf arf) quite a lot!