The dreaded FIRST BUS!

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Fri 10 Jul, 2009 10:51 pm

raveydavey wrote: Don't worry Blakey - you're not on your own with that opinion.I've got a couple of quid on tonights EuroMillions - if I drop the lot I'll buy a couple of buses, paint them light green with a dark green stripe (my favourite LCT colour scheme) and give Worst some competition! Too true raveydavey - and let's have some centre exits in them too eh ?? I could weep when I remember the dignified LCT livery with the City Crest. Both the earlier arrangement with the transfers in the centre of the panels, and the later one with the name LEEDS CITY TRANSPORT in large block letters in the most forward body panels were immaculate. The interior finish was also calm and pleasant - both the original green moquette/leather and the later brown/cream designs. Travelling in "First" buses you could be forgiven for thinking you are in a large hearse with all the funereal purple and lilac and grey - clashing incidentally with pastel blue handrails - and on the latest vehicles the "stopping" signs are in pale blue behind black glass and virtually invisible - yuk - and to think there are "designers and consultants" being paid handsomely for this nonsense !!The original Bradford City Transport livery of cream and light blue was also grand, and there was nothing to complain about with Halifax or Hudderfield either.

Crazy Jane · Post by **Crazy Jane** » Sat 11 Jul, 2009 1:26 am

Worst Bus are in my bad books this week. Just bought like £400 of cashless vouchers from them for my work, and the (edited for content) want an extra £20+ for the embossing stamp i need to frank the vouchers.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Sat 11 Jul, 2009 9:30 am

Crazy Jane wrote: Worst Bus are in my bad books this week. Just bought like £400 of cashless vouchers from them for my work, and the (edited for content) want an extra £20+ for the embossing stamp i need to frank the vouchers. Just my point Jane - and they wouldn't need to make such a charge if they threw less money down the drain on their infernal "Networks" and coloured "Lines" and totally un-necessarily changed designer uniforms far too often.On the subject of the coloured "Network lines" nonsense - I have to confess that until I needed new ink for my printer I had never heard of "cyan", and certainly didn't know it was a colour. Its a safe bet that none of the passengers on that ROUTE are remotely interested either. In this area I'm quite sure that none of the passengers in Headingley and Queenswood Drive have any idea that they are travelling on the "Turquoise Line" or "The Pink Line" - they have caught and always will catch a "56" or an "18." I hate to think what all this trash costs with graphic artists and printers making a fortune from it - not that anyone can blame them of course - they're just doing what "First" pay them to do.

BIG N · Post by **BIG N** » Wed 15 Jul, 2009 4:39 am

Geldards are running a Routemaster in full London transport red livery now - does anyone know - is it the old Black Prince one ??Everywhere I go I seem to see Arriva buses, guess that comes of working for them HA HA.Seriously though, I understand what people are saying about the good old days of localised companys and their own liverys, when I was a kid I lived in Huddersfield and as a family we had many a holiday on the west coast. I always knew I was nearly home when we would emerge from Stanage tunnel on the train and I would look across the valley after passing through Marsden and see a Double decker in their superb Red and Cream livery winding its way down Manchester Rd towards town.

Si · Post by Si » Wed 15 Jul, 2009 8:51 am

BLAKEY wrote: Crazy Jane wrote: Worst Bus are in my bad books this week. Just bought like £400 of cashless vouchers from them for my work, and the (edited for content) want an extra £20+ for the embossing stamp i need to frank the vouchers. Just my point Jane - and they wouldn't need to make such a charge if they threw less money down the drain on their infernal "Networks" and coloured "Lines" and totally un-necessarily changed designer uniforms far too often.On the subject of the coloured "Network lines" nonsense - I have to confess that until I needed new ink for my printer I had never heard of "cyan", and certainly didn't know it was a colour. Its a safe bet that none of the passengers on that ROUTE are remotely interested either. In this area I'm quite sure that none of the passengers in Headingley and Queenswood Drive have any idea that they are travelling on the "Turquoise Line" or "The Pink Line" - they have caught and always will catch a "56" or an "18." I hate to think what all this trash costs with graphic artists and printers making a fortune from it - not that anyone can blame them of course - they're just doing what "First" pay them to do. You're right, Blakey. It is nonsense - very expensive nonsense. It's a case of fixing summat that isn't broke! It's all done for our convenience, you know! As an aside, when I worked in design, our print production manager was a gent of far-Eastern origin. He was known as "The King of Cyan!"

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Wed 15 Jul, 2009 9:07 am

BIG N wrote: Geldards are running a Routemaster in full London transport red livery now - does anyone know - is it the old Black Prince one ??Everywhere I go I seem to see Arriva buses, guess that comes of working for them HA HA.Seriously though, I understand what people are saying about the good old days of localised companys and their own liverys, when I was a kid I lived in Huddersfield and as a family we had many a holiday on the west coast. I always knew I was nearly home when we would emerge from Stanage tunnel on the train and I would look across the valley after passing through Marsden and see a Double decker in their superb Red and Cream livery winding its way down Manchester Rd towards town. Hello N - you're quite right in what you say about the dignified old liveries, and in the West Yorkshire area all four undertakings (Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield and Halifax - with Todmorden) were always discreetly presented in a "serious" manner befitting their task - not like the fairground spectacle we have to suffer these days because the hideously expensive "marketing" gang say so !! I never thought I'd see the day when you couldn't tell whether you were boarding a double decker bus or a gaudy removal van !!I spent my last fourteen years happily working for South Yorkshire/Caldaire/British Bus/Cowie Group/Arrriva - yes, all those takeovers in that short time - at Pontefract, Castleford, Belle Isle and Selby Depots. I'll give Arriva their due - although they've wandered into the "branding" jungle they've done it with dignified taste and restraint so far, and the latest livery is far better than most.Oh I THINK that Geldards had their Routemaster before Black Prince finished actually, but I'm open to correction on that.

BLAKEY · Post by **BLAKEY** » Wed 15 Jul, 2009 9:20 am

Si wrote: BLAKEY wrote: Crazy Jane wrote: Worst Bus are in my bad books this week. Just bought like £400 of cashless vouchers from them for my work, and the (edited for content) want an extra £20+ for the embossing stamp i need to frank the vouchers. Just my point Jane - and they wouldn't need to make such a charge if they threw less money down the drain on their infernal "Networks" and coloured "Lines" and totally un-necessarily changed designer uniforms far too often.On the subject of the coloured "Network lines" nonsense - I have to confess that until I needed new ink for my printer I had never heard of "cyan", and certainly didn't know it was a colour. Its a safe bet that none of the passengers on that ROUTE are remotely interested either. In this area I'm quite sure that none of the passengers in Headingley and Queenswood Drive have any idea that they are travelling on the "Turquoise Line" or "The Pink Line" - they have caught and always will catch a "56" or an "18." I hate to think what all this trash costs with graphic artists and printers making a fortune from it - not that anyone can blame them of course - they're just doing what "First" pay them to do. You're right, Blakey. It is nonsense - very expensive nonsense. It's a case of fixing summat that isn't broke! It's all done for our convenience, you know! As an aside, when I worked in design, our print production manager was a gent of far-Eastern origin. He was known as "The King of Cyan!" Reassuring to know that others take the same realistic view on this utter nonsense Si - although few of us DARE to say so, such is the momentum and power of the meaningless "arty" marketing movement. I wonder what dear Jack Tapscott (RIP) of Ledgard's Otley Depot in Bondgate would have thought to anyone suggesting that the Leeds - Otley - Ilkley service should be "marketed" as the "Wharfedale Overground Sovereign Line" and the bus windows covered in white vinyl blurb. Ledgard's "route network" marketed itself by the quiet and cost free means of utter 100% reliability and good staff discipline - behave yourself and do the job right - or try the night shift at Pool Paper Mills - simple as that, and it worked as anyone in Wharfedale and Aireborough will confirm to this day - as they wait for the next rattling furniture van to come along - maybe.

BIG N · Post by **BIG N** » Wed 15 Jul, 2009 5:44 pm

BLAKEY wrote: I'll give Arriva their due - although they've wandered into the "branding" jungle they've done it with dignified taste and restraint so far, and the latest livery is far better than most. Blakey - I must agree to some extent with your comment but I am not yet totally sold on the new / modified livery that our vehicles are adopting, it looks ok on the single deckers but the doubles have too much blue and not enough cream, especially when viewed from the front - but of course thats just my opinion.Incidentally, some of the newest buses in our fleet, the single deck Wrights Eclipse's that came to Heckmondwyke depot last year were supposed to arrive in this re-worked livery but someone upon high forgot to inform Wrights of the intended changes, as the paint on these buses carrys a three year (I believe) warrenty it will be some time before they are changed LOLAs for the branding of buses to certain routes, again I agree to a certain extent that Arriva have done a better job than First, at least we are not attempting to call our routes by colours or fancy marketing names, just a good old route number.Yes the various bus side branding is colour coded if you study it carefully and this is matched wherever possible by the colour of the relevent timetable and information leaflets for each route - but its not been forced down the travelling publics throats. The Wrights eclipse's were bought specifically for our 254/5 routes and came ready branded towards the end of last year, in the new year we had a "Customer led service modification" - in your day Blakey that would be a route change mate - and all the expensive viynal had to be stripped off and replaced and the biggest reason for this re re-brand was the fact that it stated on the buses the service was "Up to every 12 minutes" - which was the frequency throughout the day but they decided to drop it back to a 15 minute frequency.We tried to explain that if they re-timed a couple of services in the morning peak and a couple in the evening to run at 12 minute intervals then there would be no need to change the branding but of course that was far too simple.

simon2710 · Post by **simon2710** » Fri 24 Jul, 2009 1:48 am

Geldards seem to be using old buses more and more recently. I saw a red London bus registered to their company. You would have thought such a large company would have their own fleet with preferably newer buses that actually look comfortable. Then again Geldards main income is probably from school runs....

raveydavey · Post by **raveydavey** » Thu 30 Jul, 2009 8:53 pm

E-mailed this to Metro today:I wonder if you can advise on the following issue?It has been widely reported that Metro pays a subsidy to First to fund / part-fund the 4 "ftr" service in Leeds, specifically the "customer service host" (conductors) aboard these buses. It has been reported that this subsidy constitutes a six figure sum, which is of course funded by the taxpayer.Given First's recent decision to scale back services on this route from 6 buses each way per hour to 5 buses each way per hour during Saturday daytime, can you please confirm that the subsidy paid to First by Metro has been reduced by a proportionate amount?This is especially pertinent as First are increasingly running traditional driver only operated buses on this route. In fact earlier today 3 buses heading past my house towards Leeds on this route in the space of 30 minutes were non-ftr buses. Two of the replacement buses were elderly double deckers*, which is hardly a good advertisement for what Metro promote as Leeds premier bus service. As First are clearly not employing the additional staff on these buses, loading times are identical to any other driver only operated bus which largely defeats the point of the ftr bus. Presumably First are also saving a considerable sum on wages here as well, which again calls into question the subsidy paid to them.If availability of the ftr buses is a problem, due to maintenance issues, etc, then I can't see any reason why the conductors cannot be deployed on the replacement buses to speed load times, etc, other than to save First in staff wages.I await your response.I'll let you know if I get a response It's becoming increasingly common for ftr's to be subsituted for whatever else is lying spare around the depot.* - I've nowt against elderly double deckers (in many respects they are superior to an ftr, ie your bum actually fits on the seat) but given Metro are pushing ftr's as "the future of public transport", they can hardly justify it can they? The number 4 route was one of the last bastions of the old Altanteans pre-withdrawal, which for all their faults did have comfortable seats.