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buffaloskinner
User
Location:
Middleton
Joined on:
01-Apr-2007 22:32:45
Posted:
207 posts
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The southern side indicates it was called Monk Pit Lock, that been the case was it specifically for Monk Pit Cloth Mills? I don’t think that the river speed would have been a big problem because the river was dammed by High Dam in those days and the boats would have been heading in that direction.
Well that’s my theory, I could however be completely wrong.
Unfortunately Jim would love to meet you but unable to make 12 as my lunch isn’t till 1pm, cannot get there till 1.20ish.
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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I've lots of time Buffalo Skinner,see you 13.20ish.,I'll also be there at 12.00 as previously indicated for if any one else turns up.
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Chrism
User
Location:
A tunnel near Kirkstall Abbey.
Joined on:
20-Jan-2008 12:56:28
Posted:
1140 posts
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| buffaloskinner wrote: |
The southern side indicates it was called Monk Pit Lock, that been the case was it specifically for Monk Pit Cloth Mills? I don’t think that the river speed would have been a big problem because the river was dammed by High Dam in those days and the boats would have been heading in that direction.
Well that’s my theory, I could however be completely wrong.
Unfortunately Jim would love to meet you but unable to make 12 as my lunch isn’t till 1pm, cannot get there till 1.20ish. |
The Ordnance survey map of 1847 shows us the waterfront area in great detail. The Canal Basin was now connected to the river at its northwestern end. A lock known as the Monk Pit lock, along with a small section of canal (the Monk Pit branch) was built, to provide access between the Canal Basin and wharves above the Bondman Dam. Later, this became very important in providing coal to the power station at Whitehall Road. The Leeds and Liverpool Canal Office, and the stone bridge over the canal were built in 1841. The bridge provided access from the canal wharves to the mills and factories south of the canal.
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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Interesting visit today,new info,things worked out,new questions,arch counting makes my brain hurt,I think I need to lie down............
Starting from the west,the first arch contains the platform I mentioned in an earlier post,which starts from the right hand wall,sets off at about thirty degrees,turns gently towards the LH wall and diverts the entire flow through into arch 2.This arch will definitely not deliver water to the Granary Arch bridge.In the gloom of the depths of arch 1 I think I can detect a partition wall with a small arch in it giving walking access behind the wall and so to the rest of the complex,but can't be sure.Arch 2 has no distinguishing feature,other than the small arch carrying water as just mentioned.No 3 arch has the vertical iron ladder and a section of the bridge leading to it,and arch 4 has the rest of that bridge reaching right across it.The next arch,no 4,is visible but has no special features,whilst further arches must obviously exist,by the visible river width,they cannot be seen.Looking at picture no 13 of Cardiarms' posting,at least 7 and possibly 9 arches were present at that time-the image I can see is not sufficiently clear.If anybody has a version clear enough for positive identification,please let us know.Buffaloskinner (a pleasure to meet you sir) and I agree that the High Dam and present weir are one and the same,so that item is dealt with.Now,round to the Granary Arch bridge to try and tie the two sides together,so to speak.The first and most apparent thing is.......only FOUR arches pass under the bridge!Arch 1 (using my numbering,though Network Rail count in the opposite direction,and use several "datum" counting series) is accounted for above,and looking through the arches,although a pronounced dogleg in all of them about two-thirds of the way up makes a minor difficulty,arches 2,3,4 and 5 can be clearly identified as what we are looking at by the footbridge/ladder presence at the far end,with the difference that arch 5 has a further footbridge section at a lower level,and presumably slightly further under the station than the other parts .The next thing to notice is that in the eastern wall is an archway with a channel leading up and to the east at about 45 to 55 degrees,fed by two further arches which for consistency we'll call 6 and 7.The next doorway arch east marked as DN10 is therefore very short,cut off at an angle,and blocks off both 6 and 7,as the next arch east,DN9 is the cross arch roadway,Although it is gated,barred,and for all I know,mined and electrified,at least we can see clear through it.Now,round to Sandford Street.The cross arch roadway is there to our left,immediately followed by a barred and gated obstruction in front of us,but at least we can,with some difficulty,see beyond it.It is evident that the dogleg common to all the river arches is aligned exactly with the north wall of Sandford Street to our left.Ahead is an arch bricked off as mentioned in an earlier post,and to the right is an arch used for car parking on the dogleg alignment and sloping upwards at more or less the same gradient as the river arches.To the left ,the single arch is split into two ,which are blanked off by brickwork.First thought is,the left hand arch was once a river arch,was blocked off and built up to roadway level,and this all ties up very nicely with what we see at the Granary Arch bridge.Very quickly sober reality intrudes.It also says that there is only the possibility of SIX arches upstream at Aire Street,and we were looking for 7 to 9!Shall I draw a discreet veil over our intrepid investigator's reeling progress,sobbing gently as he.........no,I'd better leave it in as I know you all enjoy a good laugh.Moving swiftly along to my meeting with Buffaloskinner,after a chat and map perusal we headed for the station car park and the canal tunnel.The holes in the wing walls were agreed to be most likely for a beam of some sort to have been put in place permanently or temporarily,but as it would then have been 3 or 4 feet above the water,so its possible purpose eludes us.Suggestions on a postcard please................... B.showed me an access point I'd not earlier considered,from which stanking board slots in the two towpaths were clearly visible.They were however just too far from the cast beam to be in some way connected.We did however notice that the wing walls extend to the top of the beam,but on the river side only.This would infer the possibility that the beam would have been subjected to near horizontal loads,ie from across the river rather than ,as we had all assumed,a vertically loaded function.
Let's have some theories on this and the other questions raised and we can all fall out arguing over which is the daftest!
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The Doggers
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
03-Aug-2007 14:57:07
Posted:
66 posts
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Just seen two guys up on the Holbeck viaduct, at the Leeds Station end. Anyone off here?
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3608 posts
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Thinking there's a need to print all this out, pack a flask and mars bar and go for a long walk.
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buffaloskinner
User
Location:
Middleton
Joined on:
01-Apr-2007 22:32:45
Posted:
207 posts
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As Jim has said we met at lunch time today and with it been Jims old stomping ground I had a very informed tour of the area. Thanks for a great informative discussion and 40 minutes of your time. I was almost late back for work.
As Jim states that canal entrance and all its nooks and crannies require further investigation, however I think it will have to be someone slightly younger than us though.
As Jim states the horizontal bar is open to discussion on what its use may have been for, but there are slots for boarding and seems to be a narrow towpath along the side of the entrance. How far the tunnel extends is down to the LHES and Phill. The two holes either side of the entrance are also intriguing as I have never seen anything like them on any other canal.
This was the point where Jims glasses decided that they had enough of looking from the top of the tunnel wall and almost did a tunnel reconnaissance for us, however they were caught just in time otherwise it may have been a trip to specsavers and not up the junction.
Thanks again Jim
ps Sorry Doggers it wasnt us
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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Re my last posting (19/03/10,17.40):-
".......with the north wall of Sandford street to your left........"
RIGHT you fool,RIGHT.Don't know my Rs from my L-bow again! Sorry.
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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Wheres Digger?
Preparing a recce me thinks!
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3608 posts
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| cnosni wrote: |
Wheres Digger?
Preparing a recce me thinks! |
last seen heading towards the weir in a canoe.....?
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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Was that towards the weir or over it............?
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Chrism
User
Location:
A tunnel near Kirkstall Abbey.
Joined on:
20-Jan-2008 12:56:28
Posted:
1140 posts
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| jim wrote: |
| Was that towards the weir or over it............? |
Knowing Digger... ... ... ... he'll be going under it!
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3608 posts
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| jim wrote: |
| Was that towards the weir or over it............? |
Not sure but he started in a seccret tunnel he found heading towards the river in the Gott's Park air raid shelters so probably towards and over it
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Phill_dvsn
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:17:09
Posted:
1297 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| jim wrote: |
| Was that towards the weir or over it............? |
Not sure but he started in a seccret tunnel he found heading towards the river in the Gott's Park air raid shelters so probably towards and over it |
There's a real interest in what's under the station... I think it would be good if a few on S.L could get a good look with Jim as our tour guide, we shall have to work at Network rail methinks guys
P.s Chameleon i met the ghost of Arry Awk i think down one of those secret war time tunnels lol
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phill_dvsn/4437015099/
It was HORRIBLE!
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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I'm up for that,and am free most days.I'd appreciate a prior meeting or chat to discuss protocols if that can be arranged?
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Cardiarms
User
Location:
Joined on:
21-Oct-2008 13:00:01
Posted:
1422 posts
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Had a mooch around the arches on the east side of Neville Street to trace the course of the Swinegate Goit. Fortunately the security shutter on the old civil service carpark was open so got some good photos (to follow) Lots of CCTV in there but got no hassle. Didn't have much time and probably merits a more detailed look. The car park bloke in the other arches was fine about the mooching around.
Interestingly there's evidence of an ols passage under Neville Street, I assume that this was that water course for the goit. The Floor level heer is about 12 feet below Neville Street/Bishopgate.
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Cardiarms
User
Location:
Joined on:
21-Oct-2008 13:00:01
Posted:
1422 posts
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| jim wrote: |
| I'm up for that,and am free most days.I'd appreciate a prior meeting or chat to discuss protocols if that can be arranged? |
I suggest 'No fancy dress'.
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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In our last exciting episode we left Arthur,Ford,and Eccentrica...........
Sorry wrong site,I'll have to remember that when they issued memories,I got a forgettory.Whilst scrabbling through the Pre-Cambrian levels of the research store caverns looking for old Duchess of York gig posters (failed I'm afraid) I came across a map roll I had completely forgotten about (see,I told you).In it is an 1889 revised 1909 1:500 map of the station and surrounding area.It gives me a clear,measurable sight of the full length of the weir,so my next project will be an attempt to measure arch widths and a chance to check if my maths O-level has expired.The dimension I scale for the weir is 220 feet.
To other matters:I forgot,whilst describing the Granary Arches area,to mention an insignificant area alongside the canal towpath, opposite Office Lock,once home to a good friend of mine (R.I.P. P.R.)There were and are several quite short arches here,now closed off,one of which contained an iron ladder up which access to the surface via a trap-door (shades of the Demon King).The plot above was the Motive Power Area,where locomotives were prepared for their next duty.It contained a turntable,ash pit,water facilities,short sidings,and the station compressor house,the only surviving memory of the pre-1967 provision.The ladder,needless to say,served a number of purposes,some of which were approved by management.There was also,back against the short wall,what was probably the most disgusting messing and washing facility I came across in 38 years on the Railway,and that is saying something. Anyone with a stronger candidate,please post.
Back to Sandford Street.........(well a song needs a chorus..) At the far end,looking up to the right again from the gate and bars,a little way up on the right is an opening.This is the entrance to the Queens Hotel cellars and undercroft which fills the majority of the remaining space I referred to in a previous post.Not being a member of hotel staff it isn't an area where I had "roaming rights",although I did go in on a number of occasions for (legitimate) reasons which now escape me.I do remember heating boilers,fuel stores,and lots of kitchens and associated storage rooms and the like.Somewhere inserted amongst this maelstrom were inserted two interesting areas which concerned my job and with which I was familiar........To be continued.
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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Todays expedition involved highly technical (OK,read suspect....) measurements of the width of the arches at both north and south end,the results of which agree with a figure of 35ft for each arch plus one adjacent pier.This,with a measurement of 220ft for the weir ties in closely with a total of SIX arches at the north,which,from the south end,can be identified as:-
First arch,not seen,channelled into second arch at north end.
Second,third,fourth,and fifth arches,those seen as clearly seen as passing right through.
Sixth arch,identifiable as the Queens Hotel access arch,which has either been at some point in time been blanked off,both at the north end and at the point where it for some reason bifurcated,just south of Sandford Street,or the access arch has had a "floor" created,to allow the river to continue to run underneath.The split arches remain for us to see entering arch five from the east at the Granary Wharf bridge.
So well and good,it still leaves a major problem:what on earth happened to the rest of the arches shown in the picture number 13 left on this site by Cardiarms last week?I must own up to complete puzzlement.I am confident that my arch measurements,rough and ready as they are,cannot be so far out as to admit of more (or,indeed,less) arches,and hope that the mighty combined intellect of the site's readers will work it out!
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tyke bhoy
User
Location:
Born and bred Leeds where I still work
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 09:18:21
Posted:
942 posts
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Jim,
highly churlish on my part and I certainly wouldn't want to deter your excellent content but could I please make the polite request that you insert a couple of (hard) returns occasionally to start a new paragraph. As excellent a read as it is, it is hard work when it is one continuous block of text.
Keep up the good work and no offence meant.
regards
tyke
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3608 posts
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| tyke bhoy wrote: |
Jim,
highly churlish on my part and I certainly wouldn't want to deter your excellent content but could I please make the polite request that you insert a couple of (hard) returns occasionally to start a new paragraph. As excellent a read as it is, it is hard work when it is one continuous block of text.
Keep up the good work and no offence meant.
regards
tyke |
He just thinks faster than we can read tyke bhoy
Wonderful stuff isn't it?
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tyke bhoy
User
Location:
Born and bred Leeds where I still work
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 09:18:21
Posted:
942 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| Wonderful stuff isn't it? |
Couldn't agree more which is why I was very tentative about even making the suggestion
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jim
User
Location:
armley leeds
Joined on:
17-May-2009 14:39:44
Posted:
335 posts
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sorry guys............(adopts sheepish and crestfallen pose).
I'll try to be good.
To be honest,I'm very much a computer novice........and to be even more honest I've sometimes been told I often talk like that........
Absolutely no offence taken,and I'll even try to remember to proof-read myself to hopefully reduce the number of typos.
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tyke bhoy
User
Location:
Born and bred Leeds where I still work
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 09:18:21
Posted:
942 posts
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| jim wrote: |
(adopts sheepish and crestfallen pose).
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Please no sheepish or crestfallen pose, stand proud its wonderful stuff.
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BIG N
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
06-Dec-2007 14:59:34
Posted:
180 posts
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Jim - I have found this stuff facinating over the last couple of weeks and what started as a thread about one persons photographic work has thrown up many new and interesting items for us to peruse, also lots of new questions to be answered like for example - the missing arches you are looking for, the original water course prior to the new build of the station etc, the use of the big beam over the canal tunnel etc etc.
One thing still puzzles me though and if you could just re-wind slightly for me (I have a feeling I missed this answer somewhere) could you explain to me exsactly where the subway that was in the original pictures at the beginning is, and also what its use was, as in - was it public then became service or was it only ever a service subway ??
Sorry to come across as thick but its just that I'm thick LOL
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