|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
LS1
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
|
| Phill_d wrote: |
The gable end of the pub in question. We have it on maps, and we could also see there was a passage way on the of this building that led into the yard. What's interesting to note is the double pitched roof on the end of this building. This isn't normal in my opinion. It suggests it was added on at a latter date perhaps?
|
Agree withyou on this and the point above Phil.
If you have a look at High Court just on the right of the Parish Church there are the last three Georgian Workers cottages. These look alot like the pub!
If you look at the golle image of the pub, the double pitch roof looks out of place. Just because it is all rendered doesnt mean it is all original......
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
Good point Lee. Looking into these skulls and the Crown Inn with the ancient order of foresters connection earlier, I did find out the Crown Inn on the corner of Wharf street, was the no 1 home of this order. It made all the decisions for the country. It did say it was the 'highest court' No doubt the 'High Court' street next to it derives it's name from there. They always say there is a meaning behind street names.
Still It doesn't help us with the skulls 
|
|
|
Steve Jones
User
Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
|
I wonder if the roof might have replaced an older thatched one? they were cheaper to do. Mind you would be unusual in a city based building.Roof beams if left in situ might indicate this.
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
B.T.W Brandy. Love the skull and plaque job 
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
I'm just wondering Lee. We know you could walk through the passage from Kirkgate all the way passed the skull building, passed the pub and emerge onto Crown street. I wonder if it was a busier thoroughfare than the latter day additions of the buildings suggest, The latter day buildings creating this 'yard' layout?
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
| Steve Jones wrote: |
| I wonder if the roof might have replaced an older thatched one? they were cheaper to do. Mind you would be unusual in a city based building.Roof beams if left in situ might indicate this. |
Aha Steve,this what we are up to.
The top floor is used for band practice and i have the number of the bloke who uses it,so looking at getting up there to look at the rafters,these tend not to tell lies as no ne does anything cosmetic with them.
|
|
|
Steve Jones
User
Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
|
This Directory from 1837 gives some idea of who was in Crown Street then. Number 4 (next door to Crown & fleece at 3)is listed as stable hiring out 2 Hackney carriges.
search under Crown to find other people. there is a surgeon at number 12 so fairly wealthy.
|
|
|
Steve Jones
User
Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
| Geordie-exile wrote: |
Thanks for those clarifications. Since the earliest 'record' of what might have taken place is 1968, then as I suggested a few days ago it might be an idea to ask our journo to check the old internal library cuttings files at the YEP. There may be a source for the original article in there. The original reporter must have heard the 'legend' from somewhere - unless it was a slow day and someone came up with the story after a boozy lunch. Joking! 
I find it odd that none of the contemporary newspapers appear to have reported such deaths of two men in these or other tragic circumstances that might have led to their macabre commemoration.
Oh - and I think when the report states 'formerly' the Crown Inn, could it mean that it was the Crown Inn at the time, but later became the Crown & Fleece?
|
GEORDIE the internal library thing at the YEP is a good idea,do you think it would be worthwhile you giving them a ring,or get the number of the reporter off of Phil,or even better email her to see if she can do it?
Also the 1968 article saying former Crown Inn is probably the contemporary refernce used by the reporter in 1968,though it looks like it was actually called the Crown Inn before it was the Crown and Fleece.
The earliest(so far) reference to it being called Crown and Fleece is in 1837,1826 it was the Crown and also in 1817,also the street was called Crown Street,not Crown and Fleece.
A thought has occured,the pub must have been quite important to have a street named after it,most pubs had a yard named after them (though there is Templar Street),and i think Phil is correct,it doesnt look to have been built as a pub,just a large house.
Question for DRAPESY,when would you say purpose built pubs were started to be designed,just as a matter of interest,because most pubs seem to have simply evolved from beer/tea /coffee houses,and these in turn seem to have evolved from ordinary houses,this is what looks like has happened here with the Crown.
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
1837 Directory
Acadamy
Carr Martin, 11 Crown street
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
| Steve Jones wrote: |
This Directory from 1837 gives some idea of who was in Crown Street then. Number 4 (next door to Crown & fleece at 3)is listed as stable hiring out 2 Hackney carriges.
search under Crown to find other people. there is a surgeon at number 12 so fairly wealthy. |
Hang on everyone,look at this again!!
"Number 4 (next door to Crown & fleece at 3)is listed as stable hiring out 2 Hackney carriges."
DRAPESY,would this mean its on the same side of the street as what we know from the numbering on the buildings around the Crown they were all odd numbers,or is there an explanation with this numbering similar to what you came up with before?
|
|
|
LS1
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
|
| Phill_d wrote: |
| I'm just wondering Lee. We know you could walk through the passage from Kirkgate all the way passed the skull building, passed the pub and emerge onto Crown street. I wonder if it was a busier thoroughfare than the latter day additions of the buildings suggest, The latter day buildings creating this 'yard' layout? |
I think it probably could be as I had a look over the fencing whilst you went into the furniture shop and the alley way is very wide, especially if you compare it to the alley that is further down Kirkgate that goes into the car park down the back of Crown Street.
The problem is, though We agree that 19th centure maps show a building onthe corner of Crown St and Call Lane, but as we found out yesterday the building that is there now (with the chinese writing) was built in 1904 as it says so on the top!
Therefore although buildings are shown on the map of the yard, it may mean that they are not as they seem, being altered radically throughout the years. - Dont forget there are alot of years between when the maps were drawn and alot goes on there.
On another note, a colleague at work's housemate works at the council planning dept. I'm going to try to have a chat with her this aft and see what I can find!!!
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
| LS1 wrote: |
| Phill_d wrote: |
| I'm just wondering Lee. We know you could walk through the passage from Kirkgate all the way passed the skull building, passed the pub and emerge onto Crown street. I wonder if it was a busier thoroughfare than the latter day additions of the buildings suggest, The latter day buildings creating this 'yard' layout? |
I think it probably could be as I had a look over the fencing whilst you went into the furniture shop and the alley way is very wide, especially if you compare it to the alley that is further down Kirkgate that goes into the car park down the back of Crown Street.
The problem is, though We agree that 19th centure maps show a building onthe corner of Crown St and Call Lane, but as we found out yesterday the building that is there now (with the chinese writing) was built in 1904 as it says so on the top!
Therefore although buildings are shown on the map of the yard, it may mean that they are not as they seem, being altered radically throughout the years. - Dont forget there are alot of years between when the maps were drawn and alot goes on there.
On another note, a colleague at work's housemate works at the council planning dept. I'm going to try to have a chat with her this aft and see what I can find!!!
|
Nice one Lee.
Anymore on Dysons,how sympathetic do you think theyll be?
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
| Phill_d wrote: |
An interesting feature was this small 'serving hatch' stlye opening in the brickwork. The other window was also bricked up.
|
That sill is old,and it appears carved as well,too much effort put into it for this little hovel.
|
|
|
LS1
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
|
Dyson's seem very intersted. They are away at the moment, but I have sent over the inforamtion from the YEP to them to look at.
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
| LS1 wrote: |
| Dyson's seem very intersted. They are away at the moment, but I have sent over the inforamtion from the YEP to them to look at. |
Interested enough to have them reloacted from their premises?
|
|
|
LS1
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
|
| cnosni wrote: |
| LS1 wrote: |
| Dyson's seem very intersted. They are away at the moment, but I have sent over the inforamtion from the YEP to them to look at. |
Interested enough to have them reloacted from theie premises?
|
Aye, so long as the brickwork that is left is made good thereafter.
In fact there is more to where the skulls are now than meets the eye.
I told Neil Dyson that I wouldn't broadcast it because of what it was and I forgot to tell you all yesterday!
Have to wait till the 11th now though.
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
LS1 at the risk of sounding like a nagg,Steve Jones made a good suggestion about the deeds of the Crown.
I wonder if EMCO have them and would we be asle to get some details if they have.
It does sound like they are a bit sensitive regards access in light of their upcoming report on the properties in the area so do you think it may not be prudent to ask?
If not the does STEVE JONES know where we can access any records of sales,baring in mind we know that John Ainley seems to have had it up for sale in the late 1840s?
Also Steve what about this Leeds library,what could there be in there to help?
|
|
|