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Steve Jones
User
Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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Not been on here for a while as I have been away on various holidays/pagan stuff.
Nice to see that mor stuff is still turning up.
Incidentally regarding Kirkgate, the private Leeds Library is celebrating 200 years of being on Commercial street on 4th July with a celebration and display of old photo's. I noticed when in there on Monday that it used to be on Kirkgate!
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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Hi Steve,
Long time no see.
I thought you'd gone the same way as Rangieowner and Fevlad!!!
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Si wrote: |
Hi Steve,
Long time no see.
I thought you'd gone the same way as Rangieowner and Fevlad!!! |
Yeah me too,just wondering how you (Steve)manage to have a combination of Holiday/Pagan stuff,did you visit a remote Scottish Island with no police man??(nudge nudge)
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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Yeah, he went by seaplane an'all, Chris!
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Si wrote: |
| Yeah, he went by seaplane an'all, Chris! |
Did he take a taper for some buckshee whicker?
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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Poor Steve Jones,lovely man,but gets some ribbing,all in the best possible taste.
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Mick_SGC
User
Location:
Chicago!!
Joined on:
20-Mar-2008 19:31:16
Posted:
123 posts
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Has this come to a halt then?
Regardless of what is not known you've all done really well (as you know I'm sure ) getting all the info together and so on.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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I hope not, Mick. It's on't back boiler of my computer.
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Mick_SGC
User
Location:
Chicago!!
Joined on:
20-Mar-2008 19:31:16
Posted:
123 posts
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Good, good. I'll be keeping an eye on things from the other side of the pond!
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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How long are you going for, Mick?
Have fun and keep an eye out for any skulls!!!
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Si wrote: |
How long are you going for, Mick?
Have fun and keep an eye out for any skulls!!! |
Its not the skulls,its the horses head on the pillow he needs to look out for!
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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Just thought i would say that this is my favourite page on this thread.(nudge nudge)
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Steve Jones
User
Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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I see you have been having fun at my expense again<G>.
its not a good idea to upset a witch<G>.
I am extremely busy with work at present so only check on here every few days hence the lack of posts by myself lately.
I still want to see this thing solved if possible though.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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Don't we all, Steve. Nice to hear from you.
This bout of hayfever I've got is your doing, then? ;-)
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Steve Jones
User
Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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Just to let everyone know. I finally heard back from my mate Dave wheldrake at West yorkshire Archaeolgy regarding checking their sites and monuments record for any information on the skulls.
Sadly he drew a blank so thats another avenue exhausted.
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Brandy
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Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
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| Steve Jones wrote: |
Just to let everyone know. I finally heard back from my mate Dave wheldrake at West yorkshire Archaeolgy regarding checking their sites and monuments record for any information on the skulls.
Sadly he drew a blank so thats another avenue exhausted. |
never mind Steve,a try's worth more than a look on, as mi nanna used to say.
How you doing by the way?
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Steve Jones
User
Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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\\\\\\i am doing fine. Busy with Pagan stuff. i am off to do a talk in derbyshire this weekend, then Preston for a conference the weekend after followed by leading a walk on Ilkley moor for Pagans on 26th so i haven't much time to devote to reading or researching on here!
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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| Tasa wrote: |
| Tasa wrote: |
| Geordie-exile wrote: |
A search on Google books revealed the following preview:
'A List of the Lodges Composing the Independent Order of Odd Fellows ...
by Independent Order of Odd Fellows Manchester Unity, Manchester Unity, Independent Order of Odd Fellows - 1876 - 311 pages
113 : 3030, Branch of Hope (1842); Crown and Fleece, Crown- street, ...
No preview available - About this book - Add to my library - More editions'
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I've located a copy of the book at Oxford University Library so I've just emailed them to ask if someone can find the full text of the bit about the Crown & Fleece and send it to me. No guarantee of a reply but worth a shot! |
OK, I've heard back from Oxford Uni - unfortunately their volume is a different year and at that time, the Branch of Hope was meeting in the Union Tavern on Meadow Lane. The librarian was kind enough to check the whole Leeds section, but found no mention of the Crown and Fleece. However, I've now emailed Harvard University as they digitised the 1876 edition mentioned above. I love technology!! |
Just been picking over this thread with fresh eyes to see if we've missed anything obvious. Didn't find much, I'm afraid, but, while looking on Godfrey's big scale 1847 map (with pub names) for The Union Tavern, I noticed there was a Fleece Inn on Fleece Lane, where our Oddfellow Mr. Hustwaite lived. Just a bit of supposition, but The Crown became The Crown and Fleece shortly before this time (c1930) - maybe the renaming had something to do with either the Oddfellows and/or Mr Hustwaite? Just a thought.
Anyone any other ideas on this?
PS I couldn't find The Union Tavern on Meadow Lane, but Fleece Lane is right on the bottom of the map. There is a Spread Eagle, a Red House and a Brown Cow, though, as well as The Fleece. There are three pubs further south on the smaller scale 1906 map, but they are not named, unfortunately.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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Chaddy 83
User
Location:
Middleton, Leeds
Joined on:
18-Jun-2008 13:53:29
Posted:
25 posts
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Think you lot have done a great job. Had a lot of time on my hands recently so I have managed to get to look through every page on this thread, (yes I did a couple of hours every day for the last week) Anyway from what I can gather it does seem as though the story of the 2 men who died seems to be an old folkstale. There is no evidence whatsoever that this happened. It seems that no one knew of this story until 1968 and there is nothing to say that it happened until that story in the YEP was published. I think that them skulls were put there for another reason, mainly the old church that was demolished which were then purchased/stolen so they could be used by the organisations that used to go in the crown and fleece. There seems to be too much evidence pointing towards this especially if you look all these things seem to come together in more or less the same time frame. Anyway its just what I think. Like I said well done everybody anyway it took a lot of hard work. Shame certain companies or organisations weren't as helpful as they could have been. I'm sure the real answer is out there it will surface sooner rather than later. Funny that if it was anywhere else in Leeds you would have had the answer by now, just so happens that the skulls were on the most complicated building in Leeds!
Also what was behind them 2 doors?? Did anybody find out??
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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Thankyou for your comments, Chaddy.
I tend to agree with you. The evidence 'points' to your theory, but it is still supposition! Unfortunately there is no hard evidence either way. It would be a shame if that journalist just made up the story during a drunken lunch-time session back in 1968! However, someone put the skulls there for a reason - it would be fantastic if we ever found out what it was, whether for the recruits or the Oddfellows, or something entirely unrelated! Who knows?
Andy Ross at Hills Furnishings was going to look behind the doors, but we haven't heard from him in a while...
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wiggy
User
Location:
essex
Joined on:
26-Jun-2007 14:09:49
Posted:
1073 posts
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lost will to live....good bye cruel world!!
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andyross
User
Location:
leeds
Joined on:
13-May-2008 21:14:54
Posted:
22 posts
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had loads on my plate lately si,
will do my very best to look behind those doors asap,
also you do all know that the skull building is still in use dont ya???
found out other cos i thought it was derilict,
anyway keep up d good work and i will post again soon
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drapesy
User
Location:
Burley, Leeds
Joined on:
24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
Posted:
2145 posts
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| Chaddy 83 wrote: |
Think you lot have done a great job. Had a lot of time on my hands recently so I have managed to get to look through every page on this thread, (yes I did a couple of hours every day for the last week) Anyway from what I can gather it does seem as though the story of the 2 men who died seems to be an old folkstale. There is no evidence whatsoever that this happened. It seems that no one knew of this story before 1968 and there is nothing to say that it happened until that story in the YEP was published. I think that them skulls were put there for another reason, mainly the old church that was demolished which were then purchased/stolen so they could be used by the organisations that used to go in the crown and fleece. There seems to be too much evidence pointing towards this especially if you look all these things seem to come together in more or less the same time frame. Anyway its just what I think. Like I said well done everybody anyway it took a lot of hard work. Shame certain companies or organisations weren't as helpful as they could have been. I'm sure the real answer is out there it will surface sooner rather than later. Funny that if it was anywhere else in Leeds you would have had the answer by now, just so happens that the skulls were on the most complicated building in Leeds!
Also what was behind them 2 doors?? Did anybody find out?? |
Sorry Chaddy , but I dont agree .
I'm surprised and so far disappointed that we haven't found any earlier evidence for the 'soldier story' earlier than 1968 (and I strongly suspect if we spoke to old employees of Ion Dyson's we would find it)- but I believe it contains at least a kernel of truth - and much of what we have found out reinforces the story. Remember we doubted that they were placed on the wall of a stable? - that turned out to be true. secondly there was doubt that these buildings belonged to the pub - and again that turned out to be true. My own feeling is that the story passed down by word of mouth only until 1968 - but nevertheless is true at least in some parts and is the raison d'etre of the skulls.
On the other hand we have found no evidence to back up the theories -which are purely speculation on the part of posters here-that the skulls are a) older or b) were placed on the stable wall for any other reason than the 'soldier's story'.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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| andyross wrote: |
had loads on my plate lately si,
will do my very best to look behind those doors asap,
also you do all know that the skull building is still in use dont ya???
found out other cos i thought it was derilict,
anyway keep up d good work and i will post again soon |
Don't tell me.......it's a stone mason's specialising in carved skulls?!!!!
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